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Forums —» General Caching —» General —» Censoring the forums?
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Censoring the forums?
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grafinator



Joined: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 195
Location: Coruscant

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

This is not even close to being out of hand, this is democracy.

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I find your lack of faith disturbing. - Darth Vader
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Democracy or mobocracy? **lol**

Well, if you want to get technical here are the facts.

The British Columbia Geocaching Association as a society is a totally separate entity from the website. No association in British Columbia is required to host a website. It is just a tool used by the BCGA directors to get the message out. When push comes to shove the BCGA directors can fill the pages with rainbows and unicorns if they want. As the elected body, they can decide whether the forums be removed or the whole website removed during a vote at one meeting. Technically the membership cannot tell the directors what to do on the website just as they cannot dictate how the directors hold a pen.

Last time I looked, there was no mention in the bylaws of the website being a protected and integral part of the society.

Of course everyone at the AGM can talk until their blue in the face about how the webpage should be run, but the directors are not legally bound to follow the advice. The BCGA directors are elected to run the basic function of running a society and have been given the right, through the election, to proceed as they best see fit.

So this is where democracy comes in. If you do not like how the BCGA directors are performing, you have the option to vote them out and elect people who you believe will best represent you. Now that is democracy.
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MaliBooBoo



Joined: Jan 06, 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Kamloops

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Mob? Where's the mob?
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

point? Where's the point?
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MaliBooBoo



Joined: Jan 06, 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Kamloops

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

The point? Members have concerns about their thoughts and ideas getting censored on the forums. We are trying to have a discussion so this no longer happens into the future. I ask again, where is the mob?
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

And the answer has been given. The content has never been the issue. The way that the content is delivered is the issue. I wish people could grasp that very simple concept. With the way people are overeating you'd think that the BCGA admin was just pouncing on every post. Quite the opposite is true.

The mob comes in when the group wants to dictate how the BCGA conducts every order of business. They don't want to step up to the plate and be on the BCGA executive. They want to micro manage everything from their safe little desks.

These are the people, and I urge everyone to look back through the forum records, who only come in to complain. They never say, Hey, you did a good job BCGA. Nah, that would be too nice. They come in only when there is a heated debate to throw in their "two cents" and stir the pot. You know who you are and, yes, I know who you are.

If it isn't censorship it will be something else to condemn the BCGA executive. The small but vocal mob of people who make a life choice of being "outraged"

So, censorship is here? Nah. The current BCGA administration has been around for a long time now and very little has been "moderated" in comparison to what has been posted. But for the "outraged" people, it only really has to happen once. Just wait. They'll be back with another complaint du jour in a few weeks. **lol**

Now, if there is anything the membership should grasp is this. There is no moderation when people behave. Think about it.

Well, life is always interesting in the BCGA.
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Cuddlefish



Joined: Oct 20, 2008
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

MaliBooBoo wrote:
The point? Members have concerns about their thoughts and ideas getting censored on the forums. We are trying to have a discussion so this no longer happens into the future. I ask again, where is the mob?

It is in the perception of people who prefer to contact me privately rather than to this thread to express their opinions. Why do you think you have not gotten more of a response from other members here? Think about it.
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Cuddlefish



Joined: Oct 20, 2008
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Right now I am making a lesson for the Metro Vancouver Parks officers to teach them how to teach geocaching to their park rangers. This is a program that the BCGA and the MVP conducted very successfully all last year at parks all over the Greater Vancouver Region. Your BCGA Exec (over two boards) and volunteers were at every session. I'll be conducting this session later this month. It is taking quite a few hours to make this lesson and then it will be a 4 hour session for me to teach it. Although it will take me many hours to make this lesson up, I will not get any remuneration, but your BCGA will get some money for the session. Money to run these forums.
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grafinator



Joined: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 195
Location: Coruscant

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Since it seems to appear that the remaining members of the BCGA do not care if posts are deleted at will, then why should I care as well?

My argument was that I felt that ALL members of the BCGA should have a place where they can discuss anything they want geocaching related, as long as their discussion was void of foul language, sexist or racist comments, or any other behaviour that most people would consider innapropriate, without having to worry that their comments would be deleted.

I have never in the past complained about the way the BCGA has worked or ran things and I have been a member for nearly 5 years. So for me to go against my normal behaviour of keeping my opinion to myself it should be quite obvious that I am against censorship.

I will never again fight for the rights of the members of the BCGA since it seems that I misread what other people want and they do not want anyone to fight for them.
I would like to thank certain people for portraying me as a bully and troublemaker, I appreciate you twisting my words and putting me in the Hall of Fame with the likes of DogBreathCanada and tlg.

As far as I am concerned this conversation is dead and long live censorship.

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I find your lack of faith disturbing. - Darth Vader
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Cyclepath_Cacher



Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Posts: 41
Location: Hope B.C.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Caching good! Censorship bad! Please do not delete this thread!
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Yes, censorship bad, moderation good.
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Fonty Family



Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 149
Location: Kelowna

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Cuddlefish wrote:
MaliBooBoo wrote:
The point? Members have concerns about their thoughts and ideas getting censored on the forums. We are trying to have a discussion so this no longer happens into the future. I ask again, where is the mob?

It is in the perception of people who prefer to contact me privately rather than to this thread to express their opinions. Why do you think you have not gotten more of a response from other members here? Think about it.

It can go both ways though, this topic is charged with emotion and having moderators or "former" moderators label individuals as pot stirrers, trouble makers or implying that they are isolated in their views does not really make for an inviting environment to voice your displeasure publically with the current situation...
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

If you noticed, nobody is called by name. There could very well be some "pot stirrers" posting on this thread, however. The audience is asked to do their own research on the topic.

Should the "pot stirrer" post be moderated?
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Cyclepath_Cacher



Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Posts: 41
Location: Hope B.C.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Moderation is deleting posts. Censorship is deleting whole threads.
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IRLPGUY



Joined: Mar 01, 2007
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Take heart Grafinator, there is only one individual making posts at every turn to dismiss the opinion of others with respect to censorship (moderation to some) in this thread.

It is a sad day when a member expresses an opinion on a topic they obviously have passionate feelings about and is called part of a “MOB” or his/her opinion is dismissed as having not been presented in a manner suitable to what this persons ideals may be. To not be allowed to have that opinion without being accused of “micro management” with respect to the running of the BCGA is most certainly unfair.

Not a single post in this thread is a condemnation of any member of the Executive, it has been an expression of individual opinion and a request for the freedom to conduct reasonable debate without censorship except in very specific circumstances.

Several who have posted in this thread have suggested the TOU be addressed at the AGM with respect to the running of the forums. I agree with a review of the TOU and formally request it be put on the agenda for discussion at the next AGM.

There might be many ways to say “ I am against censorship” it matters not how that expression is made as long as it not distasteful and allows others the opportunity to express an opposing view. Every individual who has posted here has expressed a valid and valuable point of view. Let’s allow those expressions, without challenging each member and accusing them of being part of something they are clearly not a part of.

Keep using the force.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Oh, so now there is a physical limit? Post vs. Thread? Does it matter how many words are in the post?
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Cyclepath_Cacher



Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Posts: 41
Location: Hope B.C.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

I'm trying to keep it simple, but deleting an offensive post within a thread, still maintains the thought of the original post without censoring. I see it in other forums all the time.
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MrGigabyte



Joined: Dec 01, 2003
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

It is a funny thing about censorship, moderating and bullying. It would seem that those that speak to any two, are also guilty of the third.

It would appear only one poster can speak to all three at the same time, has done so, and continues to do so apparently speaking for the BCGA. Trust me, as the founder of the BCGA you do not speak for me, and I am insulted that you purvey your ill found interoperation of the Constitution of the BCGA that I wrote and submitted to government.

Many of those who have posted here this past week have had interactions with me over the years. We probably did not agree on everything, but we all shared the same passion for caching and that was enough to prompt us to interact and to continue to communicate and express our views through these forums. As a result, we have all moved forward, learned and contributed to the betterment of geocaching in BC.

Censorship, moderation, bullying... All can be cleaned up very quickly.
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Fonty Family



Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 149
Location: Kelowna

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
If you noticed, nobody is called by name. There could very well be some "pot stirrers" posting on this thread, however. The audience is asked to do their own research on the topic.

Should the "pot stirrer" post be moderated?

Scruffster, i have to agree with you 100%, members should review all the facts and form their own opinion...

No, the pot stirrer comment should stay...I respect your right to voice your opinion even if it contrary to mine.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Um, "speaking for" and "defending the" are to separate things. And it's only me arguing for moderation??? What is Cuddlefish??? Chopped liver??? Oh my.

The year when the BCGA forums were introduced. Forums that became a laughing stock. So much so that they had to be closed down until they were reopened by the executive team years later.

Hmmm, I was elected three times. Couldn't go beyond two months in the third term. Sorry about that. How many months did the founder serve?

Yes, I feel it is important to prove this censorship point by example. From the emails I've been receiving most people understand what I've been doing. Hopefully one day those people will feel that they can once again enter the forum without having their head bitten off by the political few. Unfortunately, I don't feel that day will come anytime soon.

I've had a lot of fun on this thread. I've basically borrowed tactics from well known bashers and it is absolutely hilarious that those very people complaining about said tactics. **teehee** But I can also see why the bashers bash. It's actually fun being the baddie. I can see why they want unlimited freedom online. It's easier when there are no rules.

I'm glad I could, in part, speak on behalf of those who are truly scared to speak for themselves. It's really sad that this has taken place -- again. Perhaps a few months without the forums would cool everyone off. If they can't play nice then perhaps they should see what it is like not to be able to play at all. That helped clean it up the first time.

Oh yea, this is just a suggestion. Not a DEMAND. We don't want people thinking that I have that much power. **snarfle** or that I speak FOR the BCGA. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
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Cuddlefish



Joined: Oct 20, 2008
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Oh boy. I *know* my inbox is about to get flooded again. I have no good solution to this problem right now, all I can say is that it is difficult to feel welcomed in a place that doesn't seem to have much sense of community.

I'm off to post something nice and positive in a thread elsewhere.

I do not want to have to come back and tell y'all off ok?
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grafinator



Joined: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 195
Location: Coruscant

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Actually I feel that the geocaching community in BC is quite strong.
I have made more friends through geocaching than any other thing I have done my entire life. Geocaching has changed me from being a very antisocial person to a person who actually enjoys the company of other human beings.

I am happy to say that some of the friends I have made through geocaching are now good friends outside of geocaching as well.

Because of the great sense of community I feel that geocaching offers I know we will all work through this dilemma and hopefully people won't take the arguments personal, and will realize we are all entitled to our opinions. If everyone agreed on everything, the world would be a very boring place.

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I find your lack of faith disturbing. - Darth Vader
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Cuddlefish



Joined: Oct 20, 2008
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

grafinator wrote:
Actually I feel that the geocaching community in BC is quite strong.
I have made more friends through geocaching than any other thing I have done my entire life. Geocaching has changed me from being a very antisocial person to a person who actually enjoys the company of other human beings.

I am happy to say that some of the friends I have made through geocaching are now good friends outside of geocaching as well.

Because of the great sense of community I feel that geocaching offers I know we will all work through this dilemma and hopefully people won't take the arguments personal, and will realize we are all entitled to our opinions. If everyone agreed on everything, the world would be a very boring place.

I met my number one bestest geocaching buddy hollyburn in October 2008 through these forums. Since then through that friendship I have met so many other people who are now my closest friends. So I absolutely must agree with you on that point. The forums must have been going through a good spot back then. Wink
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:07 am    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

...and who was monitoring at that happy time? **whistling and innocently glancing skyward**

OK, time to polish my halo again. It is true that the BCGA forums can be a wonderful resource for making friends and getting together. I too have met lifelong friends geocaching. There are a lot of good people out there.
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HuggyFamily



Joined: Apr 07, 2007
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

*** THE FOLLOWING IS A TEST OF THE AUTOMATIC CONTENT DELETION SYSTEM ***


Mr. Huggy's mother wears army boots.


*** WE NOW RETURN YOU TO REGULARLY SCHEDULED NONSENSE ***




Sorry Mom.
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HuggyFamily



Joined: Apr 07, 2007
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
The board isn't censoring. They're moderating.

Stu,

Not entirely true, in my opinion. See below (not my words, but they seem very well posed):

"....the major difference between a censor and a moderator is the guiding role that a moderator has in terms of guiding participation PRIOR to having to uphold any guidelines. This is a major disparity between a censor and a moderator, since in the areas of censorship a work is created (e.g. a film) and then censors act on it in relation to their own guidelines - often banning the work or rating is accordingly. The censor does not participate in the creation of the work, providing advice or guiding the creative process according to those guidelines. A community moderator, on the other hand, is effectively there to prevent a problem before it happens by creating an environment within which guidelines are implicitly invoked through a moderator's own active interest and engagement."

So, in this case, how much moderation was done? Was the offending poster counseled (publicly) that they were off base, and given a chance to rephrase? Seems to me that moderation should be a public-facing exercise. I am pretty sure that, from behind the screen, and with built-up angst, we have all been guilty of writing words that we want to take back. Deleting a post entirely only exacerbates the situation, and maddens everyone, simply because there is now missing information.

If I read the situation right, some people are upset because they feel the moderation/censorship was based on a subjective set of rules. Take five people and they will all react differently to the same words. Subjectivity is rarely a successful basis for fair decision making.

In my mind, what was done (deletion of posts) wasn't really moderation, because most of us are left wondering what was said, and what terms it violated. That, and the simple premise that unless people see the system in action, they themselves really have no idea where the line in the sand is. In a truly moderated environment, we should have a chance to observe what is happening. I would rather see a thread locked with the offending party's words left for all to see, than to shroud the issue in mystery.

Of course there are limits to what should be left on a public board. But that is obvious. If a person (and there certainly are some) makes continued efforts to violate the rules, they make their own bed. Nobody will give them respect, and they will eventually disappear for lack of attention. The cream always rises to the top.

All of this is not intended to be a criticism of individual efforts, but merely a chance to restart what could be an honest dialog on the issue of message board management. Feelings have obviously been hurt, and maybe there is no chance for reconciliation. I sincerely hope that's not the case.


Mr. H.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Hey Huggy. Good to see you participating even if I thought people were FINALLY letting it go. **snarfle**

If the timing (being prior to publication) is an issue for the membership that can easily be arranged. Most forums have a switch where no post is published until it is OK'd by a moderator. So, in the case of the BCGA forums all posts could be held until someone can take a look at them. I've seen this done in several forums -- although it really does hold back on conversation and it would be a heavy burden on the BCGA board of directors. I never thought this was necessary as most posts are OK. But there is the option to hold all posts until a moderator presses a green button. The poster gets a form letter stating that their post will be posted once looked at. That option always seemed military to me. Everything read and edited prior.

Unfortunately, moderation is subjective at the best of times. In that regard I always erred on the side of caution when moderating. If you check another thread (there appears to have been far too many opened on this topic) you would have seen that when I moderated I almost always sent a note to the poster explaining the situation. See other thread for full note.

It seems that you wish the public to see what was being moderated. Doesn't that defeat the purpose? There was a period of time where a porno company managed to break through the BCGA firewall and spam every single thread with naked women. Even in that case should I have left the naked women online and ask if it should be moderated? I think only one person saw one of the spam messages. Hollyburn might remember. **teehee** She was shocked.

In the latest case, the threads were locked and held for a few days. So people did see what was being said before they were axed. I guess you missed that.

I disagree that leaving posts for everyone to see shames the poster. It's been my experience that when the forums are left to fester it attracts more of the same people. In no time at all the forums are hijacked by a select few while those who wish to have a pleasant forum go elsewhere. This is not to say that the forums aren't busy. The BCGA forums are busiest at times of confrontation. Take a look at the website statistics for now and when there was the controversy last year. They were buzzing with ambulance chasers watching a train wreck. Of course the best example of a train wreck is the LMGA forums if you remember the bantering that went on there. **rolling eyes** Oh how I miss the LMGA. That's where all the political people went.

What the geocaching community needs is a sandbox set up far away from the BCGA forums. That would be the best solution.
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IRLPGUY



Joined: Mar 01, 2007
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Mr Huggy's mother must have used those boots wisely. She certainly produced a fine, clear thinking adult. She should be proud.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

But does her son wear pumps? **giggle**

Oh, someone mentioned opening up a "sandbox" say anything you want section here on the BCGA forums. That was done years ago and it really got nasty. I'm not sure if that would be the best option as the sandbox always spilled into the open forum.
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

From what I can tell there is likely already & has been a BCGA sandbox that few are invited to join
In computer security, a sandbox is a security mechanism for separating running programs. It is often used to execute untested code, or untrusted programs from unverified third-parties, suppliers, untrusted users and untrusted websites.

The sandbox typically provides a tightly-controlled set of resources for guest programs to run in, such as scratch space on disk and memory. Network access, the ability to inspect the host system or read from input devices are usually disallowed or heavily restricted. In this sense, sandboxes are a specific example of virtualization.

In my mind, this perpetuates the already glaring exclusive rather than inclusive nature of these forums which turns everyone off, except of course the few who get to play there.

Party Hat
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

There are "exclusive" areas of the forums, I guess. There is a public section and a members only section. If you are not logged in as a member you will see the difference.

The BCGA sandbox (say anything you want forums) were before my time but I think everything was public back then. No hierarchy. That was before the webpage was revamped in 2007.

For testing codes etc you'd have to talk to a techie about that. There is a backup system in case the website gets hacked or blows up. Most webpages have a system like that as the alternative would be building up the entire website again from scratch. But that is just a techie area that was way beyond my expertise. I left that for the BCGA technician.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Oh, I forgot to mention that there are programming areas where the BCGA executive can go but nobody else can. This area is used for entering data like new members, etc. But that is only used for administrative purposes. Since I am no longer a director I can't go there. So just so you know, SOLONM, I can't go anywhere you cant -- although after a few vodkas I've tried for fun. The passwords are changed every time a new executive is elected. Darn it. And CB wont tell no matter how much I try to beat it out of him.

Hmmmmm, Do I still have the master? **hic** I wonder if this will work............
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:01 am    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

**hic** bad me. I tried all those old passwords and a few I made up. Nope, I can't get anywhere SOLONM cant. Obviously the newer executives are getting creative. **sigh** I blame Teddy2k. heh heh heh. Time for another Martini. **hic**
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Cuddlefish



Joined: Oct 20, 2008
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

Scruffy, just let me know if you need me to erm "moderate" those last posts once you wake up and the sobering begins.

I'm not even sure what the heck this thread is even talking about anymore.
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MaliBooBoo



Joined: Jan 06, 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Kamloops

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
In the latest case, the threads were locked and held for a few days. So people did see what was being said before they were axed. I guess you missed that.
I am not sure if it is intentional, but the above statement is very misleading. Recall that the very reason I started this thread was in response to having posts and a mods response to one of my posts deleted outright. Irlpguy was outright shocked that the same thing happened to him as he noted here:
IRLPGUY wrote:
WOW....

I just looked back and several of my posts have been removed, these posts were not directed at anyone personally, they made legitimate points and offered my opinion on a very important subject.

What is taking place here with this censorship speaks volums about those who are censoring these posts, it also speaks volums about those who advocate this type of censorship.
So don’t try and pretend that members had the ability of seeing what was written before it got deleted. Yes, a couple of threads got locked before being deleted, but what we are talking about here is the outright censorship that occured recently (and apparently for years, according to scruffster). And when this happens, there is no way for the membership to come to their own conclusion about what was written because it is simply gone. Struck from the record like it was never written. What Mr. Huggy writes here is very wise:
HuggyFamily wrote:
In my mind, what was done (deletion of posts) wasn't really moderation, because most of us are left wondering what was said, and what terms it violated. That, and the simple premise that unless people see the system in action, they themselves really have no idea where the line in the sand is. In a truly moderated environment, we should have a chance to observe what is happening. I would rather see a thread locked with the offending party's words left for all to see, than to shroud the issue in mystery.
scruffster wrote:
It seems that you wish the public to see what was being moderated. Doesn't that defeat the purpose? There was a period of time where a porno company managed to break through the BCGA firewall and spam every single thread with naked women. Even in that case should I have left the naked women online and ask if it should be moderated? I think only one person saw one of the spam messages.
It is outrageous to imply that anyone is saying to leave porn up for all to see. What is being suggested is to have what has been “moderated” be visible somehow to the membership so that the system is transparent and as education as to what is unacceptable. And the poster will feel less wronged if what he/she wrote remains visible to the entire community.
scruffster wrote:
The BCGA forums are busiest at times of confrontation. Take a look at the website statistics for now and when there was the controversy last year.
In my opinion, what we have going on is members taking an interest in this discussion that is going on. Don’t knock it. It is actually a good thing!
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Censoring the forums? Reply with quote

What you said must have been really bad because the BCGA doesn't delete posts otherwise. Moderation is done with the utmost scrutiny.

Say it nice.
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