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Forums —» General Caching —» General —» Who should get contest prizes?
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Who should get contest prizes?
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

There has been talk on the forums about who should and should not be allowed to win prizes in BCGA contests.

The BCGA directors could always participate in all BCGA sponsored contests but could not win prizes. This has never been a rule. It's simply been a courtesy since it would not look right if the directors won. After all, the perception of vote rigging or raffle box stuffing is just as bad as the act itself.

Everyone likes to win prizes. But it's my hope that having fun participating in the contests is more important than the prize itself. For that reason, directors have never been excluded from participating in the contests.

Now this is the hard part. Traditionally the BCGA director's immediate families were excluded from prizes too. This worked well in the early years when it was usually only one member of the family who was interested in geocaching. The demographics have changed over the years, however. Today, it appears that families have more than one geocacher and usually hold more than one handle for the family unit.

So I ask this. Should the director's spouses and children be exclueded from winning prizes as well? This is a hard question for me because I don't know how I would have felt if Landsharkz' daugher won an ipod for the Bluesky contest. I'm not sure how I would feel if director's spouses won contests.

Thoughts?
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landsharkz



Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 356
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

I think a couple of factors come into play, and the rules could be made up depending on the circumstances of the contest...

1. Sometimes, pre-knowledge of a contest, or some of its rules, can be an advantage... in this case, I say no to family members.

2. In most cases it must be a member that wins... in this case I'd say the spouse would have his/her own membership. (ipods were different... it was for youth, membership of the youth was not a requirement)

3. If a director is directly involved in the judging or selection or tallying of votes, then that person's family members should be excluded (IMO)

Organizing contests for loads of people, and trying to be fair (and look fair), often means self-exclusion for directors. This is just one of the things that's done behind the scenes... part of the price you pay for stepping up to manage an association. I say look at each contest... and evaluate if there is any benefit or (much more important) perceived benefit to participating as a family member of a director. If the answer is yes, then you must exclude.

I use the term "you must" etc... but please note, this is all my opinion, it is not the law:-)
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cartguy



Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Abbotsford

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

Well I never win or enter for that matter most contests. But I will say that 99% no make that 100% of the contests I have seen or read about employee's or there immediate family including childern living in the same house were not able to participate. My wifes company is always running a contest but I cannot enter then they have employee only contests I still cannot enter. As for geocaching contests not into caching for the prizes fame or fortune just like to get out and have fun. Two Cents
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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

I hope I didn't come across as thinking our kids should be eligible, I merely wanted to share a real life example of how this household was faced and dealt with the 'no family members' rule.

We explained to our daughter (The Drama Queen) that she wasn't eligible for prizes and we also gave instances of companies that have contests and how employees and their families can't win. She also saw that she had 'inside information' as soon as the bag of iPods showed up, which was a good life example. She may not have liked it, but she was ok with why she was excluded because if the roles were reversed she would have wanted the same rules.

It was great to see her wheels turning to come up with a potential solution and coming up with 'Chris should quit!' Lightbulb
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Tulameen_Turtles



Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

Why not find a middle of the road

For the blitz - one of the categories could be executive & their families

It's not about the prize - but the acknowledgement - why should those that put so much effort towards making caching better not be eligible for that?

Just my 2 cents
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

Mrs. Landsharks. I was using your daughter as an example because you used it. Sorry if I made it look like I was singling you out. There are numerous other examples. Here's another one...

One of the first events I attended the BCGA didn't have a donation box. Funds were gathered through a raffle. One Director's tickets kept being drawn and people kept joking that the contest was rigged. The truth of the matter is while everyone else was buying one or two tickets he bought many -- not to win -- but to donate. And he didn't deserve the negative response. Even in jest, I thought it was unfair that people were taunting. He took a prize the first time one of his many tickets was drawn but didn't accept anything else after that.

That scene left a bad taste in my mouth. Months after that some people were "joking" about the rigged contest. And a few newbies believed that it was actually rigged just through the rumours.

My point is more that the BCGA allows Directors to participate in the contests because being part of an event should, in itself, be the reward. Prizes are secondary. Well, at least I hope they are.

In a way, I'd like directors to be at least acknowledged. In the past few years I know for a fact that if directors were allowed to win, they would have swept all (or at least most) of the Blitz categories.
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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
Mrs. Landsharks. I was using your daughter as an example because you used it. Sorry if I made it look like I was singling you out.
Yes, I knew you were Stu, I was just wondering how my first post came across to others so I thought I should 'clarify' that she understood why and bounced back like a rubber band, as I'm sure most of the exec's kids did. The rules were great then and they're still fine now.
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_canadianbacon_



Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Posts: 1154
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
One Director's tickets kept being drawn and people kept joking that the contest was rigged. The truth of the matter is while everyone else was buying one or two tickets he bought many -- not to win -- but to donate. And he didn't deserve the negative response. Even in jest, I thought it was unfair that people were taunting. He took a prize the first time one of his many tickets was drawn but didn't accept anything else after that.
Actually as I recall I had 5 tickets, one for each member of the family. It was embarrassing to me too. Count your self Lucky we are not Jon & Kate + 8!!! ba ha ha ha ha ha ha Evil or Very Mad My Lotto 649 ticket I bought on the same day did not do so well. Sad

As for the comment about if directors are not directly voting for a cache, this would then include the Blitz, as directors vote just like anybody else.

As I mentioned in another thread, one of the problems in the past is that the type of people who run for the BCGA, are usually pretty involved cachers as is, the type of people who have great entries in the Blitz. As a result, director or not they could garner a lot of votes. I am not so sure this is as much as a concern as there are soooooooo many more cachers participating now. We all used to go to an event and know each other by name, it was a small community.

For the blitz, the only way people might think it is rigged, is if I went in and added votes manually, or changed the code to do something fun. If that is what people think is happening, they should not participate. All cachers including BCGA executive should be allowed to participate and let the votes fall where they may.

_________________
~~~~ _CanadianBacon_~~~~
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

I know we're not cheating. CB knows we're not cheating. The votes are all tabulated by a computer program. Everyone who wishes to vote can vote. And the security procedures in place are the strictest I've seen.

But it only takes one person to complain. And it only takes one joke to start rumours. I didn't mention your name, Mr. Bacon, because I wasn't sure you'd appreciate being outed, but yes, it was your tickets that were drawn over and over. **teehee** I remember Chillibusher saying "Wow, you should play the lottery"
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doingitoldschool



Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

I am not in support of official guidelines for this issue. I get tired of good people having to pander to the lunatic fringe who squawk "unfair" every time they don't like or win something. We are not McDonald's, with over 1.5 million employees, any number of which could rig a contest.

We are a few hundred cachers, with a few dozen doing the real work, and if one of their kids wins a ipod, geocoin or GPS - great! If the director's themselves exclude the family for reasons of optics, fine, but must we draft legislation over this issue?

note - I am not in anyway criticizing or accusing the OP or anyone participating in the discussion.
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gearhedd



Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

I hid a couple of Blue Sky caches, and had knowledge of the ipod contest a month before others. So I felt there is no way, my oldest girl should enter this contest.
But you have a group of cachers that will take and take if they are within the rules... last years Blue Sky Caches, you could have taken one coin each time if you were one of the first few. The Gold Rush, FTFs you could have found 5 ftf coins and been within the rules. But how about sharing the prizes, This is not outing anyone. Some did get more then one ftf but shared with friends. JUST LIKE THE TRADE UP RULE, not so much a rule but if it were..lol

For the blitz, I wouldn't see a problem with anyone entering.

I like to thank Landsharkz and WiggleBeans Stores for their donations and each of you have had a year when you couldn't win. Doesn't seem fair.
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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

gearhedd wrote:

I like to thank Landsharkz and WiggleBeans Stores for their donations and each of you have had a year when you couldn't win. Doesn't seem fair.

gearhedd, we appreciate your note of thanks, that means a lot to Chris and I.

WBeanz had two years on the exec and therefore no prize potential and we had 3 years. We'd only been caching for 1 year when Chris joined the BCGA so we have never really experienced the thrill of competition that's out there.

I'd like to suggest a cool Ra! Ra! banner image to be offered to the owners of winning caches to add to their listing so everyone for years to come know that it won a BCGA competition. I've seen this in my travels and it always entices me to check out those caches over others if we can fit it in.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

What a great idea. People like showing their Earthcaching medals on their profile pages. It would be nice to give them an opportunity to post "Winner of Blitz 2010" on their cache page. They don't have to post it but it is there if they want.

I really like that. Thanks.
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911turbos



Joined: Sep 14, 2005
Posts: 242
Location: Anmore, BC

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

Quote::
I'd like to suggest a cool Ra! Ra! banner image to be offered to the owners of winning caches to add to their listing so everyone for years to come know that it won a BCGA competition. I've seen this in my travels and it always entices me to check out those caches over others if we can fit it in.

Something like on this cache page?
Calgary CAR event

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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

Something like that, yes.

I'd sooner have a cool flashy banner to put on our winning cache(s) than a physical prize any day! A banner also advertises and promotes the BCGA to cachers, whereas a prize is 'once n' done'.
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gearhedd



Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

Love the banner idea.
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vanislelady



Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Campbell River

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

I love the banner idea!!!!!

On another note I really would like to see more cachers get involved in the blitz this year and and going to encourage every cacher on the North Island that I have a chance to talk to...After having won prizes for the past couple of years I would really like to not be the only one to participate in this area...
I know I have tons of places in mind already but it already involves a lot of maintenance and I want to vote on others too!!! Smack


Last edited by vanislelady on Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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couloir



Joined: Jan 19, 2008
Posts: 152
Location: Kamloops

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Who should get contest prizes? Reply with quote

Last year's winners did have the option of a winner's banner. Here is a link to an example.
Dew Drop Cache
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