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Forums —» General Caching —» General —» Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA
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Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA
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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

My understanding is that each AGM includes clear open accounting in the financial statements so I'm questioning the goal of further in-depth public scrutiny of the past year's spending. What are the 'requesters' hoping to gain?

We have all been given information when permitted by the contract guidelines and the BCGA is now going to be given a windfall to use in future years. If you think this executive has miss-managed this year's projects and spent money foolishly then don't vote them back in (if any of them stand again it would be a miracle!). This all sounds like it's coming from a position of distrust rather than pride in their work. Vote in a new slate of thick-skinned people or stand for election yourself, take the remaining windfall and do better for the BCGA next year.

This executive is to be commended for managing to accomplish as much as they have done - the hours of work are phenomenal. I've been watching from the sidelines and frankly it's amazing how much they did manage to do to support the goals and objectives of our association with the comings and goings this year.
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doingitoldschool



Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

msthebrain and pinky wrote:
I would think most BCGA members as well as directors would like to see a clear open accounting of the blue sky project. There should be no need to squeeze any grapes. Whats to hide?

Brain

Hello Brain,

I agree with you. I do not agree with the extent of the information that TT thinks she's entitled too. A society is obligated to provides it's members with a clear, readable financial statement. If the society has considerable assets, an outside audit should be done before it is presented.

What triggered my reaction was TT's expectation that she is entitled to actually review the cheque register at a public meeting. A society does not have to let any member simply open up it's chequebook and read the stubs for the last year. Imagine a meeting where the members are picking through the chequebook, telling the directors that they should have bought their pencils at such and such. You may call this transparency, but it is organizational chaos and would lead to a perpetually vacant director's board.

If she wants to know who got paid to do what, she can read it on the financial statement. If she has reason to believe that the financial statement is false or misleading, she can challenge it, and if she can convince the voting members at the meeting that her challenge is valid, so be it.

There is an insipid devisiveness in her public challenges of our board of directors. They are doing a fantastic job, and I'm tired of reading her constant attacks. Her efforts to deride their work reminds me of a favourite phrase of mine, "No good deed goes unpunished". The board of directors may have to smile and eat her comments, but I don't.
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msthebrain and pinky



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 71
Location: New West

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

Is that your corporate view or your directors view? Perception is everything. Transparent accounting in the organization I belong to is important. I have no sour grapes, nor do I wish to run. I fully realize the time and effort that goes in to running such a diverse organization. Dealing with outside funding with government agentcies at a time when many programs are facing cutbacks is sure to warrant interest. As a member of this society it is important to me that all accounting is transparent and open. I will be supporting current and future directors who feel that open transparent accounting and a strong clear conflict of interest policy is important.

And Thanks
Brain
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IRLPGUY



Joined: Mar 01, 2007
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

I believe that by accepting monies from the Provincial Government in the past two years and in particular this year with the Blue Sky project BCGA has put itself in the position of now requiring an independent Auditor. At some point the Provincial Government should be expecting an independent accounting of the way in which their money was spent. If they do not expect such an accounting then they are not managing my, or your money in a proper manner.

While asking to look at the cheque register may seem extreme, I believe it is TT show of frustration over the serious need for transparency in this executives spending of the Associations monies. This money was given to the Association and “all” it’s members, it was not given to the executive to spend without accounting for each and every cent that was received and subsequently spent.

If the Association has it’s hands tied in not being able to inform the membership about contracts and release dates for events, then perhaps we should be discussing this with the representative with whom we are dealing, by informing them that this is something which the membership wishes, and which may even be required under the rules of the Societies Act, perhaps there might be changes made in the future to that policy.

By appointing an independent Auditor the Executive must still provide information to it’s membership on all income and spending that has taken place during the year. But let’s get an Auditor appointed at this years AGM anyway.
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_canadianbacon_



Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Posts: 1154
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

IRLPGUY wrote:
I believe that by accepting monies from the Provincial Government in the past two years and in particular this year with the Blue Sky project BCGA has put itself in the position of now requiring an independent Auditor.

Well, there goes any money the association could spend on geocaching projects.

I personally will wait till after the AGM , and see what is presented at that time. In my opinion spending money on accountants and lawyers will mean the end of the association, just to validate they did not keep the best minutes at some phone meetings? I think the books will be fine, there will be no odd-ball expenses showing the executive taking geo-junkets. I am sure they have tried to act responsibly in financial matters.

_________________
~~~~ _CanadianBacon_~~~~
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911turbos



Joined: Sep 14, 2005
Posts: 242
Location: Anmore, BC

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

I agree with CB, that we should wait until the AGM before such decisions are made. I believe also that the books will be fine and that any questions that members have about the financial records will be answered.

As the previous treasurer, I know that BCGA did not receive any money from the government for the BC Parks project in 2008. BC Parks paid directly for those caches, the funds did not go through the BCGA. Those financial statements were presented at the last AGM.
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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

landsharkz wrote:


This project was funded to the tune of $20,000, a little over half of which was spent on the implementation… coins, ipods, cache containers and swag, etc. Left over funds (there are still a few outstanding expenses) are for the BCGA's use. Although not explicitly stated in the contract, the BCGA is expected to use these funds in the spirit of the project, that is to promote environmental sustainability and/or partnerships with government and NGOs through the BCGA's geocaching initiatives. We have received half of the funds so far ($10k), the other half to come upon completion... which we are close to.

Although managed in conjunction with BC Parks, the funds have come from Project Bluesky which is a provincially sanctioned partnership of the Canadian Olympic Team and the Masters of Digital Media Program (a collaborative university Program supported by UBC, SFU, Emily Carr and BCIT).
Chris

irlpguy... the 'facts' you've based your post on are a little askew. See a section of Chris' very clear post above...

1. Money did not come from the Provincial Government this year, provincially sanctioned does not mean provincially funded.

2. As 911turbos has stated neither did monies come from them last year for GeoRush,

3. The Provincial Government is not expecting an independent accounting or audit because it was not your/my money (see point 1),

4. I'm positive an independent audit would prove nothing but cost a lot. What a waste!
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Tulameen_Turtles



Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

I would like to make my intentions clear so that there are no misinterpretations.

First I do have the utmost respect for the directors, if any of my questions have come off as attacks - that is not the intention. There are several on the board of directors that I count as my very close personal friends & if the wedding happens next year I hope that they will still be in the wedding party. I know how hard they are working as I had an inkling when I was on the board for the first 4 months of this year and it is a tremendous amount of effort & energies.

First I would like to return to my questions:

What is left before completion of the requirement of the contract? And after completion of those requirements how long before the outstanding funds are to be paid.

Could it be possible that the new Board of Directors could be responsible for:
A) Fulfilling of the contract requirements
B) Following up on recieving the funds

As well, can we please recieve a copy of the contract, breakdown of the costs and can the the "official" copies of any quotes recieved for the event, as well as the checks register be brought to the AGM for the members to be reviewed.


I would like to provide my 2 major areas of concern.

Those running for office next year should know what they will be expected to do with regards for A & B of my questions above.

Also with the current "dead elephants" in the room with regards to this program, they will be able to (upon review if they feel needed) ensure to themselves that these items will not provide anything more then a great legacy. I hope as much as everyone that we will not have close to a 50% turn over in the executive next year.

My 2nd area of concern is a bit more personal, the first payment of $10,000 arrived in my mailbox several months after I had resigned from the board of directors. Even though this was an unintentional oversight and was an honest mistake in the drawing up of the contract by those involved (who from my understanding are no longer on the board) I am now tied to this program without having any knowledge of the final details or the running of it & if and when my name was been taken off of the contract & bank accounts.

There have been several conversations with those involved with the program outside of these forums. As I am not currently on the board of directors I am not entitled to view those details privy to a director - I am only entitled to view those of a member.

If I have offended anyone I am most certainly aplogetic for that.
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Catapult Jeff



Joined: Aug 24, 2005
Posts: 169
Location: Surrey BC

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

The directors are working on fulfilling the requirements for the Bluesky project. We hope to have this all wrapped up before the AGM. We hit a little bump in the road in the placement of the Vancouver cache and Mr Landsharkz is working hard on getting this completed. When it gets complete it will be a great cache.

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CaribuRoo,SkiNut and Crew



Joined: Mar 01, 2009
Posts: 33
Location: Cranbrook

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

We found a bluesky cache on October 10. No word yet on whether the kids won an Ipod ... we're figuring they all went by then.

Oh well, it was a really great idea to put this together and we had a great day biking to the cache and back home ... something we wouldn't have done had it not been for this Bluesky project ... and something that we will definately do more of.

Thanks!
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landsharkz



Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 356
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

Actually, we're shipping out the next batch tomorrow. We still have four (I think) left. You have one coming!
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

so what was the criteria for winning these I Pods? Was it a first to post thing?
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landsharkz



Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 356
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

First 30 kids/youth to post a story about why they like geocaching and what they or their family does or could do to reduce their carbon footprint.
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couloir



Joined: Jan 19, 2008
Posts: 152
Location: Kamloops

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

Bear in mind, the whole process is still not finished. We have not received all of the invoices, the final accounting is still in process and when all is in, we can produce a report to the members. We have an outside accounting of all revenues and expenditures in process and all will be available for the AGM. For everyone who is acquainted with accounting, we know that accounts are reconciled 60 -90 days after the program is complete. Following generally accepted accounting procedures we are on track for reporting.
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Bestred



Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Abbotsford, BC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

In keeping with TT asked

Is this something that the new board will be dealing with? Looking to get the remaining monies?

_________________
ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN...not Kelly's, he has his own - ask him.
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landsharkz



Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 356
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

There will be very little (likely nothing) for the board to do to receive the remaining funds. There was one outstanding item... the placement of a cache at Robson Square, but it was (late last week) dropped from the to-do list because Blue sky folks could not get permission to place on there.

This was supposed to be the "prime Blue Sky" cache, but the law courts are across the road and were asked for permission... they refused to allow a cache to be placed in that area. This last cache will now be placed somewhere in Vancouver. We'll be reporting the project complete this week as the cache is being placed now.

There should be absolutely zero concern that the payment won't happen... the government is good for it and we've done all we set out to do.
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landsharkz



Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 356
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

BTW - we still have one i-pod to give away if a young person dares to come near the website and post a story.
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Mr. Wilson and a Mt. Goat



Joined: May 01, 2009
Posts: 481
Location: Nanaimo

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

just submitted. By the way since it doesn't say, I am fourteen . So I still qualify, being young does have its advantages! Beanie

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That guy in shorts.
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landsharkz



Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 356
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

Hey, Great story... I will hit publish in just a minute. I-pod coming your way:-)

Chris
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Cachers in the Wry



Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

I love the idea of the Blue sky caches, I have one small gripe.
If the caches are meant to promote being active in the outdoors I feel like some of them should have been placed with more foresight. There are a number of bluesky caches in parks on trails that are used by xcountry skiers or snowshoers who cache but the caches are under many feet of snow so they can't really been found. It would have been nice if a little more research went into the area and what it is used for year round so that cachers who enjoy being outside year round also could make a few finds while they are in the area.

I guess my hope is that if another project like this is announced that a little more thought will go into cache placement. I love the caches that we have been able to get snowshoeing and skiing and have placed a few of my own with winter sports in mind. It is great when it is a year round activity.
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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

Cachers in the Wry wrote:
I love the idea of the Blue sky caches, I have one small gripe.
If the caches are meant to promote being active in the outdoors I feel like some of them should have been placed with more foresight. There are a number of bluesky caches in parks on trails that are used by xcountry skiers or snowshoers who cache but the caches are under many feet of snow so they can't really been found. It would have been nice if a little more research went into the area and what it is used for year round so that cachers who enjoy being outside year round also could make a few finds while they are in the area.

I guess my hope is that if another project like this is announced that a little more thought will go into cache placement. I love the caches that we have been able to get snowshoeing and skiing and have placed a few of my own with winter sports in mind. It is great when it is a year round activity.

Cachers in the Wry, that's great feedback, thanks! The caches were hidden by BCGA members around the province. There was all sorts of criteria, like following the Park Friendly guidelines, respecting BC Parks and municipal/city internal rules for park use, etc.

You know what they say about 'if you want something done right/differently...' Wink

If something like this comes up again (we should be SO lucky!), do you want to be on the list to hide some? It sounds like you could bring some new winter accessible hide styles/techniques to the game. Accommodating folks who cache by snowshoe or skiing would be awesome!
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Cachers in the Wry



Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Project Blue Sky, BC Parks and BCGA Reply with quote

Put me on the list! There are lots of places to hide more caches on the trails we use. We had just started caching in September (or I would have hidden some) but I have hidden 2 caches while out snowshoeing. Of course this year they can just as easily be hiked to but they are ready for lots of snow. We have done some really cool caches while enjoying the snow this winter and I look forward to doing more. My husband even found one while downhill skiing.
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