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Forums —» General Caching —» General —» Caching in places we shouldn't be
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Caching in places we shouldn't be
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Chewy_06



Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Hello Everyone / Anyone,

I've been stewing about this for some time now & every time I find another cache in a place where it shouldn't I get a little more fired up about it & have reached the point where I feel like i need to do something - i just cant quite figure what the best action is - if any at all is required.

I'm not going to point fingers (and, will refuse to identify, confirm or deny involvement of any CO's or caches - so dont ask) - that's not where i'm going with this, but I am looking for some general thoughts on how to handle this.

I've run into a handful of caches that have had the same issue of late, specifically:

-a group of caches that have one access point, which is clearly labelled as "no trespassing". There is even reference on at least one of the pages that says something like "you can ignore the sign"
-a cache that requires you to stand right beside railway tracks to read a phone number off of a sign that says, wait for it "no trespassing - trespassing is an offence" etc; this same cache also requires you to either enter the nature conservancy area described below, or go past another "no tresspassing sign" - which i didnt notice until i was coming back out...
-a cache that requires you to enter an area clearly labelled as a nature conservancy that includes a sign that says "NO PUBLIC ACCESS" - in fairness to this one, the sign probably was well obscured with overgrowth when the cache was placed but is clearly visible now.

I don't want to lose any caches, and I certainly don't want to be the bad guy who complains, but, I'm internally conflicted about caches that we know are breaking some simple rules. I couldnt really care less about the rules themselves - it's the potential repurcussions i'm worried about. IE I wouldnt want to see cachers getting charged with criminal trespass, i do not want to see outright bans on caches in places where there currently are no restrictions & i don't want to see our hobby/sport get it's reputation sullied by the the actions of a few.

I have contacted CO's in two cases - in the first, the CO told me how to get to the cache without crossing any lines. In the second, the CO responded by telling me that it's ok to go in, everyone else does (im paraphrasing, but the underlying message is accurate)

It's also entirely possible that i'm sensitized to this & really it's nowhere near as big a deal as it feels to me now - and I'm ok with hearing this message if necessary.

Anyone have any ideas or thoughts on this? Has anyone else encountered any - what, if anything did you do? How'd it turn out?

Thanks in advance!
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HwyGuy



Joined: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 129
Location: Langley BC

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Chew_06:

You write "but, I'm internally conflicted about caches that we know are breaking some simple rules. I couldnt really care less about the rules themselves - it's the potential repurcussions i'm worried about."

I would think the answer is obvious - the rules are there so that there are no repercussions. It is CO's and cachers that don't care about the rules that cause the problems.

If we feel the cache is somewhere it shouldn't be - we need to have enough self discipline and common sense to abide by those "simple" rules and bypass that cache. The contacting of the CO may work as it did in one of your examples or you may get the infamous "don't worry about it - everyone else is doing it" that leads to the environment paying the price. Even experienced hiders occasionally miss a sign, or are so focused on the "wonderousness" of their creation that the cache ends up in a potentially bad spot. Sometimes they will even admit it.

The couple of times I commented to the CO - I got the crock of something - "it's fine the FTF hounds said it was a Great Find! so mind your own business."

I guess you have to dance to your own drummer - if you think it's wrong - don't do the cache. There are a few out there that are bad - there are lots and lots that are great - reward the good hides and CO's with visits.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

I've been in the position where I've had to contact the cache owner. In most cases the cache owners are very receptive to concerns. A lot of times it is an honest mistake. And in other cases there are other ways to the cache without crossing private property or no trespassing signs.

However, there are cases where the cache is clearly poses a threat to the environment or simply breaks the rules. Groundspeak doesn't have many rules but it is important to abide to the guidelines posted.

Anyone who logs an illegal cache are saying they agree the cache should be there. In that respect, they are just as guilty as the cache owner. So, simply don't log the cache. You don't get a smiley. Boo hoo. A polite email to the cache owner is not required but if enough people say something the CO will get the hint.

When I see an obviously illegal cache I keep it on my watchlist and look at all the cachers that log it after I was there. And if I see them at an event I sometimes call them on finding illegal caches. Yep, I know who you are.

There is a lot of apathy in the geocaching community which makes it very hard for those that care. I can't tell you how often seasoned geocachers have told me not to worry about it. Others don't want to speak up for fear of rocking the boat. It's sad, really.
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911turbos



Joined: Sep 14, 2005
Posts: 242
Location: Anmore, BC

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

If you honestly believe that a cache breaks the rules and you don't get an appropriate response from the cache owner, you should contact the reviewer with your concerns. Send mtn-man pictures if you can. You can contact him through his profile which should be in the first log entry of every cache page.
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gearhedd



Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

I had a cache that was hidden under a BC Mail Box, and read later from I believe the Turbos that hides on mail boxes are wrong and may be breaking the law. I liked my cache but removed it after I had this knowledge.

I have never seen a cache with no tresspessing signs that had to be crossed and would not take my chances to do so. But give the CO the owner a chance to do the right thing, they may not have seen the sign/signs.

I did two new caches near my area earlier in year, that seemed to be on public land and I still think they were, however this area probable saw no action or visitors other then the few locals, their little slice of paridise shall we say. And soon after No tresspessing signs went up. I had a cache ready to go in the area which is fairly big. Maybe the one cache was on private land, but that whole area I dought.
I'm not saying I would or ask anyone to ignore No Tresspessing signs but I believe people have put signs up on public land to keep the general public off their peace of heaven.

With less and less cache locations and more and more new cachers, this may happen more often. It would be nice to see caches archived where the CO is no longer caching, cache is not being cared after, maybe opening some good spots for new cacher to hide.
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jangor



Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Surrey, BC

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

What about all the caches with things nailed or screwed into trees and utility poles? How about buried caches? Holes drilled in things with a bison tube inside???

These seem to be multiplying at an alarming rate. All are against the rules but if you look at the logs you see that people are saying "great hide, good camo etc..". Quite often a new or inexperienced cacher might see an illegal hide, and not knowing any better copies it. Instant proliferation.

Not too sure what can be done about this in the big picture, but it seems to me that if we cache owners have hides that are questionable or we are seeing environmental damage at our cache sites we need to take appropriate action.

If we don't place bad or illegal caches, newbies will only see the good ones and will hopefully try to hide theirs the same way.
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Chewy_06



Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,

Thank you very much for the thoughtful responses. Have decided on courses of action.

It's not in my nature to leave problems behind for other people, so I wil likely take the more painful road here. Hopefully it doesnt go too bad & the respective CO's understand that my concerns arent malicious at all...

Appreciate Gearhedd's response as well - I've seen no trespassing signs on (obvious & confirmed) public land as well, which ranks right up there with people putting up no parking signs in front of their houses on public streets (& a certain church that tried to charge me $5 to park on a city street during Salmon Festival - tsk tsk). I tend to deal with these types of scenarios directly. Strangely, I get challenged very rarely. Could be my hulking frame. Dont know.
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

It all has to do with CO actually THINKING before they place a cahce......oh gee....reading Groundspeak rules.paying attention to the local ones...........and Smack the rest of us who know better pulling them up accordingly.
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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

We confidently walked past two No Trespassing signs last weekend to find and log a FTF on the Historic Sooke Flow Line. The signs said 'GVWD' (Greater Victoria Water District) underneath the very clear No Trespassing. Reason being is that the GVWD is defunct and this corridor is now under the jurisdiction of the CRD which allows public access at your own risk. The cache owner researched this beforehand, notified the reviewer and put it in the listings. Short of pulling down all the old No Trespassing signs, this is another way to let people know that it's ok to hike and cache... if you have truly checked that it is.

Historic Sooke Flow Line on FB
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

If I see a no trespassing sign I heed it. I will find out from the local authorities/landowner if it is OK or not for me to walk or hike on that land.

Bottom line it is up to the CO to know for sure if where they placed their cache was in an appropriate spot.

As seekers it is up to all of us to let the CO & the Reviewer know if things are not right.

I'd like to throw out a challenge to EVERY cacher be you a CO or FTF or not...
If the cache you placed was outside the guidelines.......archive it & delete the FTF & other logs.....
Don't go seeking a FTF cache in a park that has rules about the hours.
As a FTF finder & know it was a bad spot???..don't even log it & let the CO know & the reviewer.....
As a seeker & know in your bones this is WRONG.....make a statement, email the CO & the reviewer.....
If we want to keep this game a happy thing then we all have to work together & keep it on track.

most of all we should be showing some leadership
I dare y'all
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HighMaintenance



Joined: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

I have seen a cacher log a FTF and in that log entry mention they are also last to find due to a cache being on land that is private or had a no trespassing sign on it. I thought it interesting someone logged the find knowing already there was a mistake made...I believe this cache was archived but I'm sure the FTF/find is still counted. It goes back to what is important to you? The journey? Or the smiley face....
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Julebear



Joined: Oct 22, 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Is screwing a container to a telephone post against the rules?
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jangor



Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Surrey, BC

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Like mail boxes, utility poles are private property, so yes it would be illegal.
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Chewy_06



Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Not to mention the fact that it's really not a great idea to be "screwing" to anything when placing a cache is it?

For what it's worth, I think I really am sensitized to these ones now... found another one today (ok, not really, i didnt find it because I didnt go trapsing off into the environmentally sensitive area to go find it once I would have needed to leave the trail). On top of that, this puppy's in a park that the sity of surrey has banned caching in altogether. I still have to ask myself why this is an issue for me, when it doesnt appear to be for everyone else... <sighs>

Anyway, for fun, here's the signage I found today:



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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Chewy -- That's interesting. There shouldn't be any caches in Sunnyside anymore. Not anywhere west of the North/South trail just to the west of the bike trails. I'm surprised there was a cache in a sensitive area. Could you get to the cache through the bike trails? Hmmmmmm.
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Chewy_06



Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
Chewy -- That's interesting. There shouldn't be any caches in Sunnyside anymore. Not anywhere west of the North/South trail just to the west of the bike trails. I'm surprised there was a cache in a sensitive area. Could you get to the cache through the bike trails? Hmmmmmm.

The city's policy doesnt make reference to bike trails or areas within the park - it says - NO GEOCACHING. I dont know where the bike trails are - we found a trail that went in from the North side - it had a sign that pointed cyclists East to the bike park, but didnt actually say you COULDNT ride there.

It's moot anyway, standing at the edge of the trail, my GPS was telling me i was still 45' short of the cache & the shortest distance route required me to walk right OVER the first sign pictured.

I'm still convinced this cache should not be there.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:07 am    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

OK. I was thinking of another nearby cache. I encountered the same thing south. I did not go into the area due to the signs and just as I was walking back to my car I noticed a whole bunch of official mountain bike trails. The cache was right on the trail.

Caching is allowed on the east side of Sunnyside acres. There is a map posted here somewhere. I personally talked to Surrey Parks and had a bunch of caches archived two years ago. Our approver knows not to publish caches within the boundaries set by Surrey Parks.

I haven't been to the cache in question but if it is in the middle of a sensitive area then it shouldn't be there and people shouldn't be hunting it -- especially if they have to walk right past a sign.

I'm hoping that the shortest route, as Chewy said, is not the right route and there is no geo trail into the bush. Perhaps others that have been to the cache could identify if there is an established trail on the other side that leads to the cache.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:25 am    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Found the map. No caches are allowed inside the red boundary. That is the area deemed to be an environmentally sensitive area. But if there are signs along Cardiac Trail, people shouldn't be attempting caches from there. I believe there are established trails (at least in the mid and south areas) with trail heads in the east side of the forest. I'm not sure about the cache in question.

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jangor



Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Surrey, BC

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Take a peek at this map.

Sunnyside Acres

The cache in question is on the Trail closest 24th that runs to the SE entering just east of 144th. It is in the allowed area.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Yea, but is it way off any trail in a sensitive area? Chewy mentioned something along the lines of 45' from the nearest trail. Being in the allowed area is one thing, being off trail in a park that is known to have sensitive habitat is another issue altogether.
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Chewy_06



Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

The boundary issue is one thing - which if you ask me is pretty unclear. There is no signage in the park itself to delineate between the bike park & sunnyside & there appears to be multiple official interpretations of the actual park boundary - which is um, interesting to say the least. I'd looked at COSMOS to scout the area earlier in the summer when we couldnt find a way in - usually the overlaid satellite shots help find trails.

In this case, looking at it now, it shows the spot where the trail breaks off which is the point where you need to go North off trail to find the cache. According to the boundaries marked in COSMOS it's still in the park & the boundary isnt linked to the trail at all. The boundary, which doesnt really show well in the screenshot here (go look yourselves if you want) runs exactly N-S and is well E of the trail (& cache)



All this aside, the major issue here is the sign - it's location is not refutable, it's there. Maybe it shouldnt be, if someone wants to debate that with the City, filll your boots. I'd rather be caching.

What i'll concede to is that this one would be marginal if there was no sign (and if it was frmally approved there'd be no debate at all). But, as long as that sign is there, since I've seen it myself, I wont be convinced that it's an appropriate cache placement.

I'm thinking for fun I should post a few of the other signs Ive come across... Smile
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tjguy98



Joined: Aug 06, 2005
Posts: 206
Location: Maple Ridge

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

In years gone by Hydro was very unhappy if people put nails into wooden poles such as when they nailed a sign there for things like garage sales. The reason is, the hydro guys use to climb up the poles much like loggers, and if their spur hit a nail, it could cause the climber to slip and hurt them selves.

In these days of high lift bucket trucks, I don't know if it is still an issue.
Regardless, the poles are not public property, technically they are Hydro's property. I'm sure if I walked up and started cutting down a pole, it wouldn't be "OK" as it's not public property to do with what I want.

One of those fine points of etiquette we cachers need to be aware of when looking for places to hide/attach caches to........

_________________
Read about my geocaching adventures on my website at:
tjguy98.blogspot.com/
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Teddy2k



Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 358
Location: Rosedale, BC

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Power and telephone poles are off limits, regardless of if they are on public or private property. At one of my company's locations, I installed a wireless repeater on a power pole that is on our property and I was recently contacted and told that it needed to be taken down. Lesson learned!
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Bestred



Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Abbotsford, BC

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

I can understand attaching something big, but something small and out of the way and unseen???? what about that?

_________________
ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN...not Kelly's, he has his own - ask him.
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tjguy98



Joined: Aug 06, 2005
Posts: 206
Location: Maple Ridge

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Legally? No......

_________________
Read about my geocaching adventures on my website at:
tjguy98.blogspot.com/
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_canadianbacon_



Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Posts: 1154
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

So what should the 'BCGA' do about it? The BCGA is you, me etc? It is not the board of directors. I'm not going to suggest anything that requires the same small group of people to do more work.

We all know what the rules are, and I'd guess that a lot of us are guilty of breaking the rules, if not at least ignoring them when someone else has probably done something incorrectly.

We can complain about it here, we can put needs maintenance/archive notes on caches, we can send a note to MTNMAN pointing out problems, email / message cache owners but what can be done to change behavior by the Association.? I have no idea.

_________________
~~~~ _CanadianBacon_~~~~
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IRLPGUY



Joined: Mar 01, 2007
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

_canadianbacon_ wrote:
So what should the 'BCGA' do about it? The BCGA is you, me etc? It is not the board of directors. I'm not going to suggest anything that requires the same small group of people to do more work.

We all know what the rules are, and I'd guess that a lot of us are guilty of breaking the rules, if not at least ignoring them when someone else has probably done something incorrectly.

We can complain about it here, we can put needs maintenance/archive notes on caches, we can send a note to MTNMAN pointing out problems, email / message cache owners but what can be done to change behavior by the Association.? I have no idea.

Would it not be within the mandate of the BCGA’s Constitution to produce a members “Good Conduct” document, similar to the one recently adopted as the Conflict of Interest document. It need not be lengthy or specific to any and all circumstances, but simply a guideline to “Good Conduct” that members would be willing to sign onto and model their caching activities upon.

Perhaps instead of asking this question in this thread, the current Executive should seek input from the membership through a separate forum, where members are asked to submit their suggestions, see what the result of the member input is, and make some recommendation to put to the membership for adoption by the BCGA.. I am sure there are members who have ideas on the subject. Perhaps they would feel more inclined to address the issue, if it were presented to them in this manner. If there is no interest from the Membership then at least the BCGA has made an attempt in the right direction, and nothing will be lost.

No matter what is done, nothing will completely eliminate the placement of poorly thought out caches, and make Cache Owners take on the responsibility to ensure their caches are legal and maintained. No Executive member should be asked to enforce any guidelines that might be adopted by the BCGA, just simply endorse them, and make them available to the Membership through the website.

If it only helped a small amount, then it would surely be considered a success.

Just my thoughts…
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

I think I better speak up about the behaviour on this thread. When there is a post about a certain cacher or link to a definite cache we are heading into the territory of a personal attack. I really don't believe this can continue. Before the forums go down the slippery slope, I feel that I will have to take on the unpopular role of room moderator.

Please note that any future negative posts directed toward a specific cache or cache owner will be deleted.
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_canadianbacon_



Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Posts: 1154
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

I agree that making the guidelines and rules available, and educating cachers on them, as well as intelligent discussion on how to use the resources available to get the particularly bad caches dealt with is the best approach.

As for a 'Good Conduct' document, or something attached / agreed to when you become/renew your membership (I have to do a Business Conduct Review, and mini test every year at work) is a possibility. The only repercussion the BCGA has is to remove a member from the membership if they don't agree to the Guidelines, or go against them.

Not that that threat would stop any habitually bad CO's.

_________________
~~~~ _CanadianBacon_~~~~
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msthebrain and pinky



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 71
Location: New West

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Do you know which ones are terrorist targets ???
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curnew



Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

Placing items on utility poles falls within the by-laws of each city as these poles are on public property. The closest by-law that talks about placing stuff on poles in Abbotsford is the Sign By-Law (here:[url=http://abbotsford.fileprosite.com/FileStorage/6F59FDF664F24003BB3E319AA19DBDBF-Sign%20Bylaw,%202001,%20Consolidated%20(1022-2001Cons).pdf]Abbotsford Sign By-Law[/url]

Here is what part of this I feel best describes the issue:

"Political Signs, Real Estate Signs, community activity and similar Temporary Signs, which are Displayed on any property, shall be removed by the Owner of such property within seven days of the termination of the event which the Signs advertised, failing which the Building Inspector may have the Signs removed, at the cost of the Owner."

"A Community Activity Sign may be Displayed for a period up to 60 days before the first day of the activity, and shall be removed within seven days after the last day of the activity. The Sign may have two Faces back to back, and shall not exceed 3m of area per Face except where such Sign crosses a street right-of-way. No more than one such Sign may be Displayed on any one Premise and such Sign may be indirectly Illuminated. Community Service Signs, including, but not limited to, “Neighbourhood Watch” and “Block Parent” Signs may be Displayed for an indefinite period of time."

From what I gather, the issue for the city is garbage, not the actual items being ON the pole. I feel there is nothing wrong with this. As long as it is not endangering anyone, or vandalizing any property, then I feel that this is an OK thing to do.

Just my $0.25!
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jangor



Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Surrey, BC

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

From the Groundspeak cache guidelines:

"Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):


* Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a hiding place, a clue or a logging method."

Think that pretty much settles this issue.
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curnew



Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

so does "attaching something" qualify as defacing? Attaching a sign to a pole isn't defacing... I would say spray pint would be defacing.. but not a geocache.
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

jangor wrote:
From the Groundspeak cache guidelines:

"Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):


* Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a hiding place, a clue or a logging method."

Think that pretty much settles this issue.

This is clear Jangor, thank you Lightbulb
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curnew



Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Caching in places we shouldn't be Reply with quote

deface
1) To mar or spoil the appearance or surface of; disfigure.
2) To impair the usefulness, value, or influence of.
3) Obsolete To obliterate; destroy.

Placing a cache or waypoint on a pole does no more then what is already been deemed acceptable by the cit by-laws in placing a "Garage Sale" sign on a utility pole.

However, hollowing out part of the hole to hide something would be a whole different thing and be unacceptable. The same would go for writing on the pole in permanent marker.

Let's not get carried away about what the guideline is talking about here.
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