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Forums —» General Caching —» General —» Logging a FTF????
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Logging a FTF????
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Bestred



Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Abbotsford, BC

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

Ok,
I have noticed that sometimes people will not long a FTF for a bit or right away. I can understand they are either geocaching still, or busy doing something else. I would imagine that that would be the usual reason.
Then I have noticed that some people do log a FTF right away, like right after the FTF.
Now is there a protocol as to when a FTF should be logged?

The reason I ask is that I know some can be agitated if someone doesn't log the FTF right away and they feel they can get it, only to find the cache has been found all ready.
Then there are the times when the FTF is logged right away and the cache doesn't get done till weeks/months later. (I have seen this happen)

I know some do not log a FTF right away due to those cachers who cache because of numbers and will not do a cache because the FTF has all ready been found.

What do you do? or do you think?

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ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN...not Kelly's, he has his own - ask him.
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Tulameen_Turtles



Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

Well if a cachers has claimed a cache that was placed in July of 07 they should claim it online within 8 months of getting the FTF.. lol

and when a 2nd cacher claims the cache a fully year later perhaps they should have logged something within the first 2 months - as that 2nd cacher wasn't happy but they shouldn't have been hypocritical and not logged it themselves

That way when the 3rd cacher arrives a full 14 months after the cache was published they at least know..

Real answer - when the person comes home and logs their finds - depends on schedule. Some do it from their pda at the cache, some do it that night - some wait til the end of the week.

It's a game - it's whatever you want
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

There is a unspoken rule that all finders should wait until the FTF has posted. It's a common courtesy.

Sometimes FTFers can't post right away due to the fact that they are still caching. There are also times when the FTFers like to hold off for a few hours so to trick other FTF hounds into thinking the cache hasn't yet been found. That is just part of the game.

I try my best to hold off until the FTF has posted. There are some exceptions for me, however. If the cache is published at night and the FTF hasn't logged before I go to bed, I'll just post an online log. I also make sure I post my FTFs as soon as possible. Holding off for an hour or two is a playful jab but not posting an FTF for 10 hours is just cruel. I would never do such a thing. **polishing halo** No no no I do not think so.
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vanislelady



Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 226
Location: Campbell River

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
There is a unspoken rule that all finders should wait until the FTF has posted. It's a common courtesy.
.

Not a rule I heard about before..I will log the find when I get home and start logging...Holding off affects my memory because I am old...(as dust at times) I personally do not care if someone logs a find before I say log my FTF...I don't really see a problem with this and seems like its a little bit of nit-picking....
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tlgTakingAbreak



Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Posts: 418
Location: In your face.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

I don't log anything. Laughing However, I do sometimes get a FTF although I don't make a point of rushing out the door to get it. It's just a cache; it will be there for a while -at least it should be! No one has complained to me about my not logging the FTF.

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landsharkz



Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 356
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
There is a unspoken rule that all finders should wait until the FTF has posted. It's a common courtesy.

In all honesty scruffster, that sounds like a mainland courtesy that doesn't make it past the ferry terminal Wink .

Here on the South Island we log when we get around to it, sometimes all out of order for the first 4 or 5 if there was a rush to get it or everyone had the new cache on their list that day. It's not uncommon for someone to log '5th to find, first to log'. Sometimes it's fun watching online to see who was FTF after everyone has done logging for the day.

I guess we're on 'island time' over here - probably the proximity to Salt Spring or something Laughing . Now if you'll excuse me... I have to prepare the granola and make sure the kids sandals are ready for school tomorrow Wink .
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

I could be totally off the mark here but it is my understanding that letting the FTF log first was a world-wide custom. The FTF is traditionally on the bottom of the online log list. It stems from a time before online geocaching profiles.

But now groundspeak has personal profiles where people can list their milestones so I expect over time this will be one of the old school traditions that go by the wayside. With the surge in new geocachers I'm not surprised that many people haven't heard of it.
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Bestred



Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Abbotsford, BC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

I have to admit that I have never heard the rule though it does make perfect sense.
I also like the 5th Find, 1st to log as well, has a ring to it Very Happy
I will admit, I am sometimes VERY slow to get my logs in, BUT, I am not much of a FTF'er so, nothing to worry about there Laughing

My main concern I guess was that, a cache (not mine) had been done and the FTF person posted right away (logged) and then the poor cache sat for another month or so without anyone doing it. It just made me wonder if the FTF person had held off loggin (not for playful reasons, but logic), would the cache had been done much sooner by others?

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QuigleyJones



Joined: Mar 09, 2005
Posts: 135
Location: Raincouver

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
There is a unspoken rule that all finders should wait until the FTF has posted. It's a common courtesy.
I thought the unspoken rule was that FTF'ers are suposed to wait untill the end of the day to log their find, so as to sucker others into going out and trying to be FTF only to be 2TF.
My BAD.

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gearhedd



Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

You don't need to wait for me to post my ftf's lol no really

If you wait for the ftf cacher to log before logging and they wait till others go out after them to get second to find or worse, is it not just a a viscious cycle.

I like to go out to get ftfs, but they are gas guzzlers because you tend to have only those or that cache in mind and don't have a biggger list of caches. So if someone could have logged the ftf before I leave my house just so the cache will see action its first day, well that is cruel.

I log all my caches as soon as I get home. The real question is all those cachers who don't log DNFs you know who you are. And I have heard this arguement that dnfs keep cacher away, so only log a dnf if you have searched for sometime. Another can of worms.

my 2 cents
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Tulameen_Turtles



Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

ohh dnf's that don't get posted - now we happen to have a new cache out here in maple ridge that we know a few people have dnf'd and haven't posted and are now asking for hint from others that have found it.. lol

they'll help the person - as soon as they post their dnf.. but until then..

We always post a DNF if we have given it a good search - I find that DNF's challenge me to find a cache not keep me away - it means that it's a good search - and if someone dnf's on one of our caches I find it a complement..

But to e-mail and ask for a clue when you haven't posted a dnf- disapointing - give us the complement on the hide a least!
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vnm747



Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: BC

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

Hmmm...what if geocaching.com kept a tally of dnf's for each profile?
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d-onion



Joined: Apr 08, 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

I agree with not giving hints until that cacher logs a DNF. We always log DNFs if we give that cache a real try.

It doesn't matter if a tally was kept for each profile. It's part of the game. My stats are for my enjoyment only. I view golf the same way. If you cheat on your score, you are only really cheating yourself.

Posting a DNF has it's benefits:
1. maybe the cache is missing
2. maybe it's rated too low

Cache owners wouldn't know unless DNFs were logged.
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Bestred



Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Abbotsford, BC

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

venom747 wrote:
Hmmm...what if geocaching.com kept a tally of dnf's for each profile?

it does, but only 4 your own personal use.
Just click on your account, geocaches, and then didn't find. Very Happy

But I know what you meant Laughing

I have dnf'ed ones I couldn't find, and sometimes I have forgotten to dnf a couple I couldn't find...but when remembered went and logged them. I am sure no one is embarrassed to log a DNF, as it doesn't say something about that geocacher...it could be the cache itself that is missing or maybe just put back in the wrong spot. Who knows?
I also have to agree that DNF's can be a challenge for other cachers who think they could find it. I personally will not go for a DNF if there are several posted.
If there are several DNF's posted then I figure it really is missing Shocked

If someone DNF's on any of my cache's I will check as soon as I can and ensure it is still ok, and if so, post. If not then I will temporarily disable the cache.

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vnm747



Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: BC

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

Thanks Bestred, never noticed that before. But yeah, a dnf is just an indicator to the cache owner, nothing more, nothing less.
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Love Bugs



Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 61
Location: Langley

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

I

have always appreciated DNF logs on my caches. It lets me know if I should go check on them, sometimes caches have a habit of moving in an area. I had one cache that moved over 50 meters in one year.
I will post a DNF if I trully looked for the cache and could not find it. Nothing like being a cache owner and not knowing that your cache might be missing. I had one cache that was missing and a cacher who did not post their DNF until the fourth time to the cache and then they were mad at me because they had wasted so much time looking for it. Please post your DNF's it helps the cache owner.

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landsharkz



Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 356
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

Back to the original question for a moment if you don't mind Smile

We visited this old TEAM KFWB cache on Vancouver Island today and although we logged a DNF Wink (it was relocated in 2005!), we did note that the old timers 'SteelBlueFire' and 'fws' weren't waiting for 'jrav' to post their FTF in Feb 2003. jrav's FTF was the third log on the page Exclamation . Now these guys have been around the caching scene a few more years than we have Wink .

GCDBA7
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

It's interesting to go back in history to look at the geocaches around 2003 and earlier. I did that a while back to see who is and isn't around from the early days.

One thing that I noticed is the earliest FTF logs don't appear to proclaim FTF. It's simply implied with the first log on the page just as it is with the first log in the physical log book. Depending on the timeline between first, second, third finders, there may be some comments on the FTF from subsequent finders, however.

The need to proclaim the FTF becomes more prevalent around 2004. That makes sense since 2004 saw the first BIG wave of newbies hit the scene.

It seems that allowing the FTF post first is a courtesy that is slowly going by the wayside. It's not really a big deal. It's just one of those traditions that seems to have disappeared along with Locationless caches. Can you believe that there was a time before micros??? Well, that is another thread. **teehee**
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msthebrain and pinky



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 71
Location: New West

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

I always thought if you don't log a DNF then your hand falls off. Thats why the Brain and I always log our DNFs!
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MsChief-Gps_y



Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 261
Location: Lower Mainland

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

FTF used to be a nice thing but not the big deal it has become. The disheartening thing is that in that rush for a FTF the site area gets trampled way quicker than it used to. There seems to be less respect for the environment and more emphasis on a smiley versus the experience. I still prefer to be one of the early finders so I can experience the site as pristine as possible.

I'm only usually online once a day in the mornings so if I go out and get a FTF it may not be logged till the next day as I may not have time to get online the same day again. I know nowadays some FTF'ers hold off deliberately but I try and post as soon as I can.
It doesn't matter who logs when online. It's the caches log book that counts.

I log my dnf's. They are some of the best and funniest logs to write and read. lol I give credit when I needed help in whatever form. And can take full credit when I found it on my own. I also don't use hints unless I really need to. When I never see a dnf from a cacher their creds go down. We all have them. What would be the point of caching if you went and found it in a minute or so each and every time? I like the challenge each one (hopefully) presents.
I will use Note if I don't get out of the car or can't get within range to even look due to the muggle density or situation. If I get to look, then I post a dnf.
Dnf's keep the cache owner informed of a possible problem. I take no joy in seeing dnf's on my caches. I've found quite a few caches after multiple dnf's on them. I've also spent a lot of time searching for caches that weren't there. That's caching! I'm happy to help anyone about my caches if they post a dnf. I try and refer any questions re another's cache back to the cache owner. But there are exceptions (ie: owner not active etc)

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Bestred



Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Abbotsford, BC

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

MsChief-Gps_y wrote:
FTF used to be a nice thing but not the big deal it has become. The disheartening thing is that in that rush for a FTF the site area gets trampled way quicker than it used to. There seems to be less respect for the environment and more emphasis on a smiley versus the experience. I still prefer to be one of the early finders so I can experience the site as pristine as possible.

It doesn't matter who logs when online. It's the caches log book that counts.

I log my dnf's. They are some of the best and funniest logs to write and read. lol I give credit when I needed help in whatever form. And can take full credit when I found it on my own. I also don't use hints unless I really need to. When I never see a dnf from a cacher their creds go down. We all have them. What would be the point of caching if you went and found it in a minute or so each and every time? I like the challenge each one (hopefully) presents.
I will use Note if I don't get out of the car or can't get within range to even look due to the muggle density or situation. If I get to look, then I post a dnf.

We have come across one cache that had the 'pristine' condition destroyed. I am sure it wasn't just cachers though, but funny thing was...the cache wasn't even in that area.
I too like the idea of coming across a cache that has the 'pristine' area, as it makes it more of a challenge to ensure you are on the right track.
I have a series on the go (just has to be posted) and while looking for a place to put the caches, we (Me & TESKELLY - he is my guide...lol and I am still learning this hiding a cache thing ) found the most beautiful places, and ensured there were trails that could be used instead of making new ones. It was great to know that while we were doing that, we were doing exactly what we should be as geocachers. *sigh* lol

As for FTF's being logged...I was mentioning to TESKELLY just what you said there MsChief...what is in the Log Book is what counts most, as that is where the first name is going to be signed and dated.

I understand Scruffster's meaning about when Geocaching started that it was courteous to wait till the FTF logged, but I think now that geocaching has grown and of course with the new fandanggled gadgets Shocked ...yes, PDA's, IPhones, Phones with GPS/Internet, etc., people are logging their finds as they find them. I am sure I would do the same if I could. Hey this way, I wouldn't forget to do it when I got home, or wouldn't be too tired to. Laughing Wink

I like reading DNF's on some caches, and sometimes it is good to know if there are like 5 dnf's on a cache as then you won't spend all day looking for that one, but will spend some time just to ensure it isn't there Very Happy
I was able to archive a cache due to someone DNF'ing it. Had no one done that, I wouldn't have known it was missing.
Plus...when you see a DNF and you find the cache...it makes you feel good to know that one, it isn't missing, and two, YOU FOUND IT!
Nothing against anyone who can't find it when I can, but if I can find a cache that I know someone who has been caching for years and years more than I, isn't able to find, well that makes me feel like I am doing something right. Very Happy (or at least my GPS or the kids are doing something right) hee hee Laughing Sometimes those kids of mine can get into places or reach further under something than I can. Very Happy
***Anytime someone needs to borrow them....just let us know...lol Laughing Laughing ***

I love the idea of using the NOTE if you haven't had the chance to look if there are muggles or something else. I never would have thought of that. Thanks for sharing that!

I am glad I posted this topic, as I am learning new things each time I read this thread.
Hee hee, goes to show you CAN teach and 'old' dog new tricks. Laughing Wink

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Technic



Joined: Feb 29, 2008
Posts: 73
Location: Kamloops

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

I agree. First to Log bears as much weight as First to Find in certain incidences. There are times, I suspect, when the FTFer vindictively does not log the FTF, so they can goat other ambitious geocachers into rushing out and thinking they might get a FTF, finally. (Pretty sad). In that case the FTL should take precedence. All FTFs should be logged into the cache log book with the date and time of find, and then if they still think they should claim the FTF after someone has logged a FTL, there should be a good reason for the late logging by the FTFer.

Having said all that, this would take a lot of policing. Up to now, I firmly believe that the geocaching community is a very honest community. I hope that this continues because if it doesn't, the Geocaching Associations will have to step in, and after that, the big Eye, the government will take over.
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HwyGuy



Joined: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 129
Location: Langley BC

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

Rules??

I have a grand total of 4 - I think - FTF out of my 1300 (almost) so the big deal about FTF is lost on me. I get to it when I get to it. Of course the whole coin thing is another mystery to me as well but that is another topic.

Having said that, if I find a cache and happen to be FTF, I do not immediately rush home to log it. I continue with my day of caching and log the FTF the same as all the rest - when I get home. If someone has gone looking for it purely for a FTF - life's a bitch - then you die - get over it.

To say that I have to answer to someone because a cacher that came after me got to his computer before me, or heaven forbid has a Blackberry or some other device and managed to log before me is just a large pile of horse doggy doo.

If that is what this hobby is coming to - I think some cachers need to take a step back and take a pill.

There are no prizes for FTF or FTL and I hold no cacher in a higher regard just because they have more of them. In fact, for me, it is probably the reverse.

The cachers I respect are the ones who are friendly, happy to talk to you about their finds and misses and, ones who seem to enjoy the sport and ones who have given back to the community of caching. I imagine some have lots of FTF but I don't know or care what their numbers are - their actions speak louder.

If you are that worried about numbers - take up Bingo.
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gotlost001



Joined: Nov 06, 2006
Posts: 95
Location: Abbotsford

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

HwyGuy wrote:


Having said that, if I find a cache and happen to be FTF, I do not immediately rush home to log it. I continue with my day of caching and log the FTF the same as all the rest - when I get home. If someone has gone looking for it purely for a FTF - life's a bitch - then you die - get over it.

I agree!!!!
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Tulameen_Turtles



Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

People keep talking about the FTF's and I agree with the previous 2 cachers comments..

What I find upsetting is when caches are placed in beautiful areas, absolutely gorgeous and sit there for 1 full year before being claimed due to it being "out of the way" and having to Hike a bit, or better yet ones that a Honda Civic can get to that are so remarkable but 20 minutes out of the way that sit there for 2 full years and no one stop by

www.geocaching.com/see...0ca4541f12

and when a cache is archived finally because no one will go get it

www.geocaching.com/see...a888f1f9bf

I personally find it much more gratifying to visit those places that people aren't rushing to - getting one of these caches is worth more then 10 FTF's

Why are you in this game? isn't it to experience nature and see things you wouldn't see in everyday life? Are you wanting to take away memories or numbers?

In the end it is only what we make of it, and what's important to us - but remember your first few caches - how many caches have you gotten now that you can honestly say you truly remember or do some meld together? If they are starting to meld together - why not step out of the ordinary and do the extraordinary and make it amazing - try something to challenge you?
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_canadianbacon_



Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Posts: 1154
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

Technic wrote:
There are times, I suspect, when the FTFer vindictively does not log the FTF, so they can goat other ambitious geocachers into rushing out and thinking they might get a FTF, finally. (Pretty sad).

Its a cachers choice to go, some other cacher delaying a log has nothing to do with it.

I think the FTF hounds are quite aware of the 'possibility' that a log has not been made online, and if an FTF is what they are after, that's all part of the game. Its just those cachers way of adding a twist to the game, so good for them! If in competition for that FTF there is a little goading, then that is also part of the game. [:)]. They would not be racing out for that #1 spot if they figured there was not someone else also racing out to get it, what would be the point?

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vnm747



Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: BC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

One of the things I really like about caching is the lack of rules. Everyone is free to cache in whatever way he or she chooses. Having said that, some common courtesy is required. Respect for the environment and for the next cacher are important. What I mean to say is if there are cachers out there who delay logging ONLY to goad others to the cache, that's just nasty!
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Bestred



Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Abbotsford, BC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

TulameenTurtles wrote:
Why are you in this game? isn't it to experience nature and see things you wouldn't see in everyday life? Are you wanting to take away memories or numbers?

In the end it is only what we make of it, and what's important to us - but remember your first few caches - how many caches have you gotten now that you can honestly say you truly remember or do some meld together? If they are starting to meld together - why not step out of the ordinary and do the extraordinary and make it amazing - try something to challenge you?

I have to agree here, especially with the 'how many caches have you gotten now that you honestly say you truly remember or do some meld together?'

I have over 600+ caches and I can say that I don't remember them all. I am not saying that I didn't enjoy the find, just that they all weren't as memorable as some.
I know that one that I will never forget was this one
www.geocaching.com/see...?wp=GC9284

One reason is that we did it with fellow cachers, but also because it was an adventure, a true adventure.

I don't have many FTF's and most are with TESKELLY but I don't keep a record. I find the hunt and the find more important than the numbers.

In regards to logging FTF's...I know most people are out caching and if there happens to be a FTF during that time, they aren't going to rush home and post it, they are going to continue on their day. I know I would. Not everyone has a gadget they can post with right away. Very Happy

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msthebrain and pinky



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 71
Location: New West

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

We are long standing members of the FTF Hound Group. I am the first to admit we have a problem..... the click of the brand new lock n lock, the feel of the clean white first page ... these things all add to the thrill of a FTF.. kinda like a chase! If no one logs it online right away too bad for me I am glad we are out caching. We think its funny when that happens so lighten up and have fun caching. YOU play this game how you want. If you want more rules make them for yourself and not others.


Cheers,
Pinky
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cartguy



Joined: May 18, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Abbotsford

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Logging a FTF???? Reply with quote

YOU play this game how you want. If you want more rules make them for yourself and not others.


Yes have to totally agree with msthebrain and pinky here. Very Happy
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