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Forums —» Regional —» Lower Mainland / Coast Mountains —» Restoring Stanley Park
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Restoring Stanley Park


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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:18 pm    Post subject: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

Many geocachers in the lower mainland may have heard that over 3000 trees in Stanley Park have been toppled during the wind storms o 2006. It will take years for Stanley Park to recover.

The Vancovuer parks board just made an announcement. They said if anyone is willing to give the city a christmas present -- how about a tree for Stanley Park.

There are two ways to do it. We can donate money to the Park Board's tree fund or take another (costlier) route and buy a tree. If BCGA members got together to buy a tree a plaque will be placed in honour of the BCGA's donation.

Since most geocachers in the lower mainland have used Stanley Park to cache, I think it would be a very nice gesture to plant a tree in the Jewel of Vancouver. It would also show to the Parks Board that geocachers are dedicated to preserving the environment.

I haven't checked into the cost of a tree but if geocachers in the lower mainland feel that it is a good idea perhaps we could set up some kind of trust fund. If everyone pitched in we could have enough money to plant a tree by Spring.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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hollyburn



Joined: Jul 22, 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

The small garden group that I belong to donated a tree to a small town in Quebec after the ice storm and to Halifax after Hurricane Juan. We are less than a dozen members and will likely donate for a tree in Stanley Park. I think it would be great if BCGA could do that as well.
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nine_ca



Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Penticton

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

A much better spot for part of our " $800.00 " than a trade show.
I am in for a donation if the BCGA site can set up a way to take them.
If BCGA put in for a tree and it [ they ? ] could be identified in the park they would be automatic "virtuals"
Done right , we could get a bit of good 'park' publicity .
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QuigleyJones



Joined: Mar 09, 2005
Posts: 135
Location: Raincouver

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

I'd donate to that (or more realistically take some credit for what hollyburn donates)
and I like the idea so long as the plaque placed in our honour has a micro cache in it (or more realistically engraved coords) Very Happy

And hey didnt I just read that theres $700 not being spent on a booth.
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DocMagoo



Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Posts: 62
Location: "In the 'Wack"

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

This is a much better investment (and one that will last and provide more benefits to to a larger segment of society) than the expenditure on space at a trade show.

Now here's the hard part.....and I hope that I'm not seen as being unsupportive of the idea. We need to take into account that this is the BCGA, and is representative of caching throughout British Columbia. Other areas of the province have been hit just as hard (and I'm especially thinking of the Gulf Islands/Vancouver Island), but the media has really brought Stanley Park to the forefront as the media tends to be somewhat "metrocentric". In no way am I trying to belittle the tragedy of what's happened to the stand of forest within Stanley Park (or speak against something that would be positive)...but perhaps the focus should look outward as well. Have any other parks within BC sustained damage to the same extent?

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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

That's a good point, Doc. I started this thread in a regional area as a concerned citizen more than a BCGA director. Although the geocaching community is legendary for generosity, I wasn't sure if this particular "cause" would go over well. I haven't talked to the other directors about the BCGA's potential involvement with this or any other charity. A tree for Stanley Park is just a starting point for what could be a positive role the geocaching community could play across the province.

If I can get Vancouver members to latch onto this or any other cause, perhaps other regions may follow suit. No area of BC is a stranger to disaster and there are a lot of worthy projects out there. Rebuilding the Kettle Valley Railroad trestles come to mind.

I'll be monitoring this thread to see if local (Vancouver area) geocachers are willing to support this type of project and if they're willing to put their money where their mouth is. If so, it's not out of the realm of possibility the BCGA can take an active role with projects like this around the province.
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_canadianbacon_



Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Posts: 1154
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

I'd support a plaque for Stanley Park. If possible set up a new Paypal email account for specific donations.

Though I see Doc's point about being metro-centric, Stanley Park is not just Vancouvers Park, it's visited by so many visitors from all over the world, and I think the word 'local' would include more than just the GVRD for its visitors.

Having a couple of its caches on my watch list, I know cachers visiting here from outside the area regularly log those caches. We don't have enough money to help every community that may have storm damage, we are not fixing roofs or buying generators, we are talking about one of the best geocaching spots in B.C. This is a geocaching organization, and helping restore a geocaching spot seems very appropriate to me.

I'd suggest a seperate donation fund, and some funds from the BCGA. If its enough to get a plaque , get a plaque, if its enough to get a plaque and a few trees do that, if its not quite enough to get a plaque, donate it to the tree fund.

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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

I looked into the prospect of planting a tree in Stanley Park. In order for the BCGA to receive a plaque, it would cost $2000. But if under 12 members of Hollyburn's Garden Club can do it, Lower Mainland Geocachers can do it too.

It woud be the least we could do to show our appreciation and gratitude to a Parks Board that has openly welcomed geocaching in its public spaces. A gesture like this would go a long way.
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hollyburn



Joined: Jul 22, 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

That's more than we donated. I guess trees are less expensive in eastern Canada! Can BCGA give receipts for charity? Maybe put something on the home page for those who don't read the forums.
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V-I-cacher



Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Vancouver & Island

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:38 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

while realistically the donated tree might just as well be the victim of the next storm... if it earns us a Plaque, then it is a good investment (aside of the "sign" it sets)
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MsChief-Gps_y



Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 261
Location: Lower Mainland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

While traditionally a metal plaque has been used, it looks like these days we need a non-metal alternative or it will soon be at the metal recyclers. Nothing metal is safe anymore. Is there any alternative? The only thing i can think of is carved stone.

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V-I-cacher



Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Vancouver & Island

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

this stanley-park-gravestone is proudly presented by the BCGA Shocked
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MsChief-Gps_y



Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 261
Location: Lower Mainland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

lol Well, why carved stone is used for headstones it is also used for a variety of memorials. Metal is a bad investment these day. I see so many benchs, war memorials etc where the metal is gone and there is only the stone or wood left.

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MsChief-Gps_y



Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 261
Location: Lower Mainland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

I've also seen ordinary rock carved with info at quite a few places. Blackie Spit is one place I can remember off hand. There is a circle of natural rocks and each is carved. I find them more aesthetic as they blend in with nature so well and you can really only see the man-made part when you are closer to it.

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V-I-cacher



Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Vancouver & Island

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

we could "make" a geo-rock... as already has been said: would be nice to have a cache inside anyways Wink
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

I'm not sure the BCGA will have any say in the plaque itself. Dedicated trees are usually ornamental and used in the landscaped part of the park. If our donation was used to replant part of the natural forest, the plaque would most likely not be in the immediate area, but rather, be part of a larger memorial in a garden or landscaped area as part of a list of names of donors.
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South Surrey Scavengers



Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 84
Location: South Surrey

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

I e-mailed the parks board and told them to contact the major logging companies. I'm sure one of them would be willing to remove any or all the fallen trees and replant just for the publicity or a plaque in the park.

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V-I-cacher



Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Vancouver & Island

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

maybe they should just level the whole park and build some more skyscrapers all over the place...










I'm j/k Razz
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hollyburn



Joined: Jul 22, 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

Photos after the storm.
www.flickr.com/photos/...9306/show/
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Half-Canadian



Joined: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

hollyburn wrote:
Photos after the storm.
www.flickr.com/photos/...9306/show/

Thanks for posting those pictures! For those of us that haven't ventured into the area since the storm, it's a real reminder of how significant the damage was.
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Team K1W1



Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 54
Location: New Westminster

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

I was talking with my friend who works in the parks department at the City of Burnaby. They lost alot of trees as well - particually along the inlet side of Burnaby Mountain. So it wasn't just Stanley Park that was hit hard.

Steve
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V-I-cacher



Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Vancouver & Island

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

Team K1W1 wrote:
I was talking with my friend who works in the parks department at the City of Burnaby. They lost alot of trees as well - particually along the inlet side of Burnaby Mountain. So it wasn't just Stanley Park that was hit hard.

Steve

I seen a lot of fallen trees in that area indeed during my recent tour of the caches in that area. Not only along waterlines, but basically just any sort of "treed"-area...
And I'm sure Scruffster can say a word or two about it; having done a maintenance-tour of his caches in the area as well.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

I've done a few maintenance trips this winter and every time I go out I find another cache area destroyed. **sigh** It's true that the inlet side of North Burnaby took some heavy damage. There are a few areas that look like a war zone.
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wildbeanz



Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Port Coquitlam

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

My two bits worth. I thank Scruff for his initiative on this project. Geocaching has brought me to so many areas of Stanley Park that I have never been before (often in search of a Skunk I may add) and to so many other beautiful groves of trees ! What better way than for a community of "stump" users to give back than to help restore our park.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

The feedback was very positive so I have set up a fund for the restoration of Stanley Park. You can find the link to the fund on the front page. There are several ways to donate including paypal. I truly hope geocachers will support this worthy cause.

I will keep everyone posted on how much the BCGA has received.
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South Surrey Scavengers



Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 84
Location: South Surrey

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

wildbeanz wrote:
What better way than for a community of "stump" users to give back than to help restore our park.
I love Stanley Park like most people but has anyone ever considered that it doesn't need "restoration". Most places in the wild do not have people picking up the fallen trees. Trees fall all the time. There is always a windstorm happening somewhere. It's natures way of ... creating nature. So by "restoring" the park we are trying to put it back to the way "people" made it. Which has roadways, trails, seawall, aquarium, etc. I'm not saying to take any of that away as I visit and enjoy the aquarium and the park with my kids but let's not forget either that trees fall even big trees. So really we're trying to make it safe and accessible for the masses which has its place too.

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V-I-cacher



Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Vancouver & Island

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

uh... yup... but aside of cleaning up the roads and leaving - hopefully - most debris on the ground for the rest of the park to live off...
...they plan on planting more trees, ...or not?

It isn't a matter of "what would nature do here" so much as "how can we help nature 'get there faster'".

Sure, let the storm blow the trees down, but you do want to stroll thru a Park, right? not walk around in an area that looks like as if a logging company wanted to make a clear-cut...
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South Surrey Scavengers



Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 84
Location: South Surrey

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:13 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

I'm not really against cleaning up the park, after all its a city park not nature anymore. I heard on the news about one of the environmental groups that lobbied the parks board to leave the trees on the ground so that the nutrients will get back into the soil. In nature that's the way it works. If you remove all the fallen trees you have removed all of the nutrients, minerals, and other elements much like happens to farmers fields over time depleting the soil. In a city park though it needs to be safe, clean, look pretty, and have other amenities that provide attractions for people to come to it. It's not nature anymore but it's called a "park". As I said I think the "park" should be cleaned up but also realize that this park prior to the storm did not look like that 200 years ago when there was no concrete or ashpalt in it.

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South Surrey Scavengers



Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 84
Location: South Surrey

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

Big article in todays Sun about the park. $4.7 million pledged for the restoration so far. It will exceed the amount that it is expected to cost for the work.

Also a big article on the effects of restoration. Definitely not letting nature take its course. There are many plant and animal species that thrive in these conditions where the forest has opened up letting more light to the ground. Ground growing plants have a chance to establish themselves and species of birds are expected to inhabit the area that would not normally enter a mature forest. So by going ahead with resotration you will be taking away habitat for some species to give to others. Another example of man trying to tame nature while trying "to do the right thing". Exclamation

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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

Actually, the 5m needed to restore the park is only an estimate. The actual price could be less or it could be much more. There are areas of the park that haven't been explored in detail yet due to the fact that it is impossible to get there. Don't believe everything you hear on the news.

As for the nature/park issue. Stanley Park is an excellent example of a Tempoate Rainforest. It's one of the few city parks in North America that remains primarily in its natural state. Yes, there are sections on the east side that once contained the zoo and there are the few tourist traps, It gets manicured for safety reasons from time to time. But for the mot part, it is very much a forest. Anyone that leaves the zoo and gets to the middle of the park can see that it is not much unlike the untouched sections of the province further north. Is it the same forest that it was 200 years ago? Nope. Captain George Vancouver recorded Native settlements at what is now known as Second Beach and Dead Man's Island. Stanley Park has long been inhabited and used by people.

If we wish to preserve Stanley Park in reletively the same state it was before the storms, it truly does need human intervention on a major scale. It's not just cleaning up the trails. It goes beyond planting trees. Preliminary studies have found that huge sections from Third Beach to Prospect Point are in danger of severe landslides. Some people might say, OK, let nature take its course and let the land slip. But how far can we let nature take its course. Would we feel the same way if a landslide permanently buried the seawall or Saiwash Rock? Both landmarks are currently in danger. At this point in time it would be too late to wait for a pine cone seed to sprout. The banks will have to be replanted quickly so roots can take hold.

Most of the natural debris will most likely be left. It's the largest of the stumpage that is being considered for sale.

Even if the Parks Board is able to receive enough money from other sources, I believe it would be a great gesture on the part of the BCGA and its members to plant a tree. It will show that we really do care about British Columbia's most famous landmark. The plaque would just be icing on the cake.
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South Surrey Scavengers



Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 84
Location: South Surrey

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:13 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

Quote::
over 3000 trees destroyed
from the home page. It's not that I don't think we should clean up Stanley Park. It's the way that people talk about it that I find amazing. The trees were not destroyed. They fell down. Given time they will rot. Their nutrients will go into the soil. A new tree will grow. It's recycling. Nature did it long before us.

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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

It's the European sensibility. First nations beieve nothing on the planet was finite. Nature takes its course. That is why there is a controversy over the totem poles in the Museum of Anthropology. While scientists spend countless hours preserving the totems many descendants of the people who built them believe they should be put back in the wild to rot.

Nature can be destroyed just like a wrecking ball hitting a building. Allied forces flatened much of the Black Forest in Germany during WWII. USA planes carpet bombed the Vietnam forests in the 60s and 70s. Regardless if the perpetrator was human or nature, Stanley Park was still destroyed. And with scientists around the world warning that people are at least part of the cause of current severe weather patterns, I will take issue on the topic that it was totally "nature" that leveled the trees of Stanley Park.

Human intervention can be used for good, however. I just heard that the rehabilitated salmon streams (brought back to life in the 90s) in Stanley Park will need fixig up after the storms.
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MaliBooBoo



Joined: Jan 06, 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Kamloops

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

Is it true that we (BCGA) are intending on planting 1 (one) tree for the cost of $2000 (two thousand dollars)???? Please clarify. I don't want to seem negative, but this seems like a lot of $ to plant ONE tree! Thanks...
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V-I-cacher



Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Vancouver & Island

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

now there is a thought... let's buy $2000 worth of tree-seedlings and just sneak into the park at 3 or 4 am and plant them ourselves Mr. Green
that would fore-go the Plaque, tho... (unless we have one made from a portion of the $2000...)
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

This should be cleared up a bit. The Plant a Tree program was in place long before the wind storms. It is a way for the parks board to show appreciation to the largest contributors. The minimim 2000 dollars does not go towards just one tree. However, a tree (usually an ornamental tree in the manicured side of the park) is dedicated to those that give a donation of 2000 or more. The donation itself goes to many things.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring Stanley Park Reply with quote

Update: The Parks Board has gone through more of the park. The new cost estimate to restore Stanley park has jumped to 9 million dollrs.
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