CCBot/2.0 (http://commoncrawl.org/faq/) British Columbia Geocaching Association —» Forums —» General Caching —» General —» Deleting Finds
Home Newest Caches Forums Your Account About BCGA Search Blitz  
Columbia Ice Fields
Columbia Ice Fields:  [?] . The entrance is in Alberta, but a good part of this is in B.C. [M | C
Toggle Content=  Register or Login  Please Join our Association 
topleft topfill topright
Toggle Content Our Sponsors
Worldcaching.com
Worldcaching.comLandsharkz Coins and Geocaching GearGold CountryCaching Containers
bottomleft bottomfill bottomright
topleft topfill topright
Toggle Content Waypoints
bottomleft bottomfill bottomright
topleft topfill topright
Toggle Content Coming Events
bottomleft bottomfill bottomright
Forums —» General Caching —» General —» Deleting Finds
toplefttopfilltopright
Deleting Finds
If you have questions/comments about geocaching in general or anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, post them here.
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index —» General

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
marmi_and_tas



Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 178
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

This is probably a dirty topic that nobody wants to talk about...but what circumstances lead a CO to delete a cacher's find?

In our caching history we have had one of our finds deleted and that was a cache at Cannon Beach. No blame to the CO as we had not met the time requirements for logging and had not mentioned that we were out of Country.

Most often I will first email the cacher if their find is questionable and we will take it from there.

What do other cachers do?

marmi
Back to top
scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

I know a few people who have found my caches online but their signature isn't on the logbook. In the early days I used to email the owner asking where in the logbook they signed because I couldn't find it. I wouldn't delete their post, however. I'd leave it to their own conscience.

I've deleted a few posts. Most were double posts that were obvious mistakes and other posts that told future finders where my particularly hard to find cache was. In the latter case I emailed the poster and invited them to post again but to please not give away the location of the cache.

A very wise man by the name of CB said something to me way back in 2004 when I started geocaching: "Everyone plays the game differently" That stuck with me. It's true. We all have our own standards and I realized that it wouldn't be right for me to push my standards on anyone else. And when push comes to shove, why should I care? It's not worth my time playing school marm.

I know what I've found and logged and that's all that is important to me. I'm not geocaching to compete with anyone else but myself. And I will also willingly admit that there have been a few times where my fat fingers couldn't get the wet, swollen paper scroll out of a nano or micro. I couldn't physically log but I logged it online anyway. If the CO decided to delete my online finds in that case I wouldn't argue. After all, the only proof of finding a cache is physically signing the logbook.

I guess what I'm trying to say in this rather long-winded post is geocaching.com says that we're ultimately responsible for our caches and our cache pages. If we want to delete phoney posts, we can. But why bother? The CO will know someone is a cheat if they don't log. Later finders will know the person is a cheat if they don't log. Many people do read the logbook onsite -- especially the last finders before them. And so cheaters can log as much as they want without finding a cache but their credibility will never wash with the mainstream geocaching community. They can boast they found 1000 caches and people will giggle behind their back.
Back to top
katcogo



Joined: Feb 21, 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

I've personally deleted only one log on one of my caches. This was from a newbie on my challenge cache. I emailed them and explained what was required and gave them the chance to delete their found it log. They didn't so I did. I felt that was a situation where I had to be fair to other cachers who had put in the work to claim the find.

I have a new pet peeve of a long list of logs of "found it, couldn't sign it as I forgot my pen". I forgot my pen once but managed to make a muddy mark on the log book to indicate I was there.

I don't delete those but sometimes check to see how many times these people have "forgotten" their pen.
Back to top
Fonty Family



Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 149
Location: Kelowna

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

I have never deleted a finders log, if they want to cheat they are only cheating themselves. But if I really wanted to, I would first prove the finder did not find the cache by retrieving the logbook and verifying they did not sign the actual logbook.

Personally, i sign all logbooks, if i cannot sign the log then i take a picture of the cache in the location so i could prove i did find it if the co asked. Typcally, i also note the reason we i could not sign the log in my cache find note and let the co know i have a picture if they want proof that i found the cache. I do not post the picture with my log as it would be a spoiler. In the two or three times i could not sign the log due to wetness the co of the cache has never challenged the find or requested the picture evidence
Back to top
marmi_and_tas



Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 178
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

Long winded or not Stu, your thoughts are always appreciated.
So, in a nut shell...cheaters are cheaters and we all just acknowledge that and snicker to ourselves? Everyone plays the game their own way?
Somehow that just does not cut the cheese...either in politics or caching. What would happen if we let cheaters win all the time without calling them out? They get to do what they do without facing any consequences? I don't think so.
Letting cheaters off the hook may be a small thing to ignore in Geocaching...but in the long run it cuts genial society off at the knees.
Well, let me get back to snickering/giggling about all those caching cheaters. They know who they are...we know who they are and still they cheat and we allow that. Sucks.

marmi
Back to top
TeamPawz



Joined: Apr 21, 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Port Alberni, BC

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

What about caches where the entire point is to find the logbook? Everyone does play differently but when a CO puts the time and effort into a special hide I really feel that the log should be signed. I guess I am being picky but if everyone did whatever they wanted the the entire game could be threatened. In my opinion there are rules and guidlines for a reason. That being said, we have made our own bad judgements/mistakes but we try to stick as close as we can to the way groundspeak has layed out the game. They do ask that the physical logbook be signed in order to log it online. We have also found the a respectful and informative email has always cleared up any logging issues we have had. This probably won't be a popular post but it is just my opinion.
Back to top
katcogo



Joined: Feb 21, 2009
Posts: 543
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

A cache owner who sees a log that is inflammatory, rude, obnoxious or otherwise beyond what is normally considered acceptable should either delete the log or edit it, but only after contacting the cacher involved. However, if the find is legitimate, it does need to stand as a find. Malicious notes should just go away.

I think that GENERALLY if people are just logging finds online randomly the "game" of geocaching will quickly lose its appeal and they will stop playing.

Where things get complicated is when cachers make a choice that is less than honest. Once that threshold is crossed, it is hard to resist the next time that choice presents itself. This is where the "everyone plays by their own rules" applies. If those people can sleep at night, I don't think I should lose any over it.
Back to top
marmi_and_tas



Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 178
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

Hey TeamPawz..excellent thoughts...and we are in agreement. Thanks for voicing your opinions! Everyone plays the game differently...right...read that as cheating. No matter how you play...cheating is still cheating.

marmi
Back to top
marmi_and_tas



Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 178
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

Interesting thoughts Kat and I bet you and i sleep well at night! lol

So many choices when one sees a nasty log or a log that blames another cacher without any real proof of wrong doing. Assumptions are just that and shoud never show up in a log.

I delete any malicious or nasty sounding logs immediately, without contacting the logger first. They should know better.
Now...on to fair trades with swag. Cripes....I have tons of swag weighing down my cache bag but nowhere safe to leave these collectibles. Just checked on one of our Troll caches and found bread bag ties/rusty bottle caps as 'trade' items. Like....????
Back to top
Raygar



Joined: Feb 10, 2007
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

I have asked for longer logs on one of my caches. Apart from that Ive not had any trouble but Id delete a fake or rude log in a second.

Fair trade lol its hard to find a cache big enough for swag let alone good swag, it seems the more caches there are the smaller they get and less/poor swag.
I never trade or take anything as a rule but I carry swag to drop and a repair kit, THAT seems to get allot of use lol.
I just started last year or so placing hides and wow that big one with the nice coin and big toys emptied very fast sadly.

My next two at least will keep out all but the very hardy so I think that should help haha (evil laugh)
The Stainless Steel Rat
Back to top
marmi_and_tas



Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 178
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

We met the Stainless Steel Rat n person last summer and he was walking bent over due to all the good swag he was carrying. lol He did not offer us any swag trades nor did we reciprocate. Gotta do some trades soon, yes?
Back to top
Chewy_06



Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

Ive deleted for two reasons - and never without contacting the cacher directly first:

1. A log that openaly states: did not sign the log. I'm sorry, but signing the log feels like the only real rule to this game. Didnt sign it? i dont really care, but dont SAY that in the log - the last thing i want is for someone else to see that and think it's ok.

2. Offensive logs - logs that are abusive or derisive towards me or any other cacher. And yes, it's happened. Ive sent the cacher in question a polite note saying that I had an issue with the log they've left on my cache, i'm sure that they didnt mean to come across that way & requested they please amend it. Most have complied, One said something along the lines of "i DO really feel that way, but you're right & i'll change", a couple replied with vitriol which was passed on to groundspeak and a couple never replied or amended, so, their logs went to the black hole where every time critical email ive ever sent landed also.

Beyond that, i havent deleted anything, nor do i think i'd want to.
Back to top
Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

We have an EarthCache that is VERY tide dependent and requires some close up photos to prove your learning.

VES #2: Devilfish Rock

We've had people post pics of themselves from the beach and if they are tourists we've cut them some slack, but the locals have had to stay true to the requirement. We haven't asked anyone to delete their log (kinder than deleting it ourselves) but we have asked for a re-visit! Read the proper qualifying FTF log by Amandazon at 4am Snorkel Life Preserver :), not the first one logged from her car the day before! She is an amazingly good sport Trophy .
Back to top
marmi_and_tas



Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 178
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:51 am    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

Mrs_Landsharkz, asking a cacher to change or delete their log is indeed kinder...thanks for saying that! The only log I have deleted came from a young boy claiming a find when he had not met the cache requirements. I emailed him regarding Entente. Oh, I lie and shame on me...another deleted log was to do with one of those annoying cache machine things. Said cache had been muggled but the fellow claimed a find in spite of the fact that it was long gone. He never contaced us after that delete.

marmi
Back to top
Fonty Family



Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 149
Location: Kelowna

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

marmi_and_tas wrote:
Mrs_Landsharkz, asking a cacher to change or delete their log is indeed kinder...thanks for saying that! The only log I have deleted came from a young boy claiming a find when he had not met the cache requirements. I emailed him regarding Entente. Oh, I lie and shame on me...another deleted log was to do with one of those annoying cache machine things. Said cache had been muggled but the fellow claimed a find in spite of the fact that it was long gone. He never contaced us after that delete.

marmi

What is the the cache machine thing?
Back to top
marmi_and_tas



Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 178
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

Haven't heard of any cache machines happening lately but it is basically a bunch of cachers getting together en masse to find as many caches as they can in a short period.
Originally they would first ask the CO's permission but that fell by the wayside.
As with any large scale effort.....trashing areas is a given.
Back to top
Sir Vayor



Joined: Jul 15, 2010
Posts: 1
Location: Sechelt, BC

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

I deleted one 'find' on one of my earth caches because the person who found it placed the answers right on the webpage rather than email them to me and I didn't want the armchair geocachers out there copying the answers and sending them to me. I also emailed that person to explain what I had done and why and suggested to them to log in again according to the rules of an earth cache. They chose not to so they lost a smiley.
Back to top
savant9



Joined: May 02, 2009
Posts: 198
Location: Langley

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

I have only ever deleted 2 logs and both times they were double posts of which I only deleted one. Both times I emailed the cachers to ask them to delete their own double logs and neither time did they do so, so I did it my self. Other than that I let logs stand however some one has written them. If some one claims a find on one of my caches without actually making the find, thats their business. I am not going to check my logbooks to verify anyones find. I do understand the earthcache deletions if someone places the answers in their log. I may need to do that at some point as I own 6 EC's currently, but I haven't needed to do so yet.
I actually had a DNF logged on one of my EC's by a new cacher. I emailed them to inform them of the special requirements of an EC, and that there is no physical cache to find. I advised them to delete their DNF log and invited them to try to answer the very simple questions to relog it as a find. My email was ignored, so I left their log as it is, with a DNF on an island......

Logs tell the history of a cache. Real or imagined, they are what they are. Although the cache belongs to me, the logs belong to the authors. Let them write what they will.

_________________
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Back to top
Highlander 71



Joined: Apr 17, 2011
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

That's the rule of thumb I try to follow as well. What cachers write in their logs is up to them. After all, it's their log, not mine, although there have been times I have been sorely tempted, even with a couple of logs by my own brother! But in the end, I leave it to their conscience to log what they feel is necessary.

The only log I have ever deleted was one that contained inappropriate language. I sent an email to the person inviting them to re-enter their log but I never heard back from them.

As for my own logs, I have edited a great many, but I have deleted only one. Not long after I started geocaching I posted a "needs archived" log on a cache that hadn't been found or maintained in over a year. The CO was upset, needless to say, and looking back I think he over-reacted, but I did delete the log and I re-submitted it marked "needs maintenance".
Back to top
Highlander 71



Joined: Apr 17, 2011
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

I forgot to add that the CO in question did go out and fix his cache! (And I have found it)
Back to top
bcrockcrawler



Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 85
Location: Nanaimo

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

I have deleted logs usually because they were a double post. (I learned that early in our caching career on a MrGigabyte cache and that is the only time one of our finds have been deleted. We changed the second visit to a note)
I always send a message to the cacher on why I deleted their find as did MrGigabyte.

An interesting twist to this topic is that we have an extensive geocoin collection and recently I have had to delete some 'discover' posts because it is clear that the cacher has not seen the coin. (Claims to see the coin at some event where we have not been) I think it is because of the number of coins that are out there, the tracking numbers are getting close to the same and with one miss-read or incorrect keystroke, you may be looking at a coin page of a coin that you did not see.

_________________
Rock crawlin' in my Bronco and Geocaching with xstitcher. Life is good.
Back to top
dragonflyer



Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

Well, I think I was meant to find this thread right now... Just in the past few days I've had a number of coincidences that add up to what looks quite a lot like a group of new cachers running immaturely hogwild through the Vancouver geocaching world... No quite smoking gun, and it would be an immense amount of work to prove it, and even if I could, then what? I'm trying to not take it personally, but my sense of integrity is outraged. I'll be relieved if I'm yet proven wrong, but I'll be keeping an eye on them...

When I first started hiding caches I compared the logbooks against the online logs, but was surprised to discover there were almost as many cachers who signed the log but didn't log the find online as the other way around. I can't be bothered to check logs since I've had more than two caches out there, though! I haven't deleted any logs, but I will send a polite note to people asking for clarification if things don't add up. eg when one of my coins that hadn't been out of my house in months was discovered twice at an event in Illinois! I was really excited to think maybe my coin had been doing some Astral travelling, but of course it turned out to be just a mis-transcription.

But something flagrant like the above I'm having more trouble shrugging away.
Back to top
marmi_and_tas



Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 178
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Deleting Finds Reply with quote

I have just deleted 2 cacher's finds from one of our caches because they didn't find the cache but made their own instead. Their logs puzzled us until tas checked on the cache and brought their 'fake' cache home.
We are pretty easy going when it comes to cachers logging a find when they have any issues with our caches and usually they contact us first. We are also only too willing to help cachers when they email us.
But to do a 'throw down' because you can't find the cache? Not going to happen. This kind of stuff really gets in the way of living and having fun.

marmi
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index —» General
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 8 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


bottomleftbottomright
topleft topfill topright
Advertisement
bottomleft bottomfill bottomright

:: Copyright 2003 - 2009 BC Geocaching Association ::

RSS Feed:
Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/BCGeocaching
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy
Theme by British Columbia Geocaching Association.