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Forums —» General Caching —» General —» Important MOT cache concerns
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Important MOT cache concerns
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IRLPGUY



Joined: Mar 01, 2007
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:03 am    Post subject: Important MOT cache concerns Reply with quote

I was about to make a post to the topic regarding the disturbing happenings regarding the MOT, and the disrespect being shown by some individuals in this manner. Since the BCGA had the last word and then locked the topic I wish to address it here with the post I had planned for the other thread. I would ask that the Executive either continue this thread or start a new one to "inform" the membership what is happening and keep them "up to date" on this issue. Please do not remove posts that are on topic unless they are offensive or personal in nature or lock threads to prevent activity on that thread, except for those same reasons.

Please, please all those wanting to see a resolution to this issue take a moment and step back. This issue is not going away quickly and it will make no difference if everyone observes a few moments (days) of reflection.

Ever since this issue was presented in the forums, to the members reading the forums it seemed that the BCGA was not “handling” the issue. The Executive were unable to provide the membership with information to help quell their desire to know what was going on. The BCGA could not provide that information because they simply did not have it themselves because they were not being kept abreast of the issue by Groundspeak. After a considerable amount of time Groundspeak has taken a position that does not resolve this in any way and it continues to be an issue for future caching opportunities in certain area’s of BC.

I would ask the Executive to get past this ideal that you were elected to handle the affairs of the BCGA membership in whatever way you saw fit. Demonstrate good leadership qualities and admit that at times you may not know how to deal with a situation in the best way, set aside your pride and make an attempt to work with Phil and the membership toward a resolution that benefits the cachers of BC. What is happening now is suicide and just plain childish.

Without a doubt you will muddy the waters by separating yourselves from a member who has gone about attempting to resolve this in such a way as to not jeopardize caching opportunities in this province. Dialog has been started, I would ask that you build on that rather than try to start fresh without knowing all the facts.

Some mistakes have been made from the beginning in dealing with this very important issue, please do not continue to make matters worse by alienating the membership and those who have offered you some good advise. Good leaders know when to take good advise, jangor has given you some.

As I stated in my first post, if this becomes an issue over the remotest possibility for the Government to be drawn into a lawsuit over activities taking place within their jurisdiction, they will attempt to eliminate that possibility by banning whatever it is that might cause a problem, if this happens, geocaching will most certainly be affected. Keep that important fact in mind.

I am trying to not be critical of anyone acting as a volunteer, I have been there many times, however I have learned there are times when we must accept the fact that the best interest of those we serve could also be served by someone other than a person duly elected. That is what committees and good leadership are all about.
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Cuddlefish



Joined: Oct 20, 2008
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Important MOT cache concerns Reply with quote

Thank you for your insight IRLPGUY. I can assure you the BCGA Exec are not viewing this issue through the lens of pride. We are being pragmatic and respectful of all concerned. We have had a plan that involved key concerned parties and we are proceeding.

I certainly do not want to suggest we have not welcomed Philatsea's contribution, however the way he has presented the situation may not be representing the facts completely.

Your board was elected to handle this matter and we will. So far the BCGA have succeeded in having that ban lifted and now we are working on making it province wide.
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Philatsea



Joined: Jun 17, 2008
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Important MOT cache concerns Reply with quote

Cuddlefish wrote:
Thank you for your insight IRLPGUY. I can assure you the BCGA Exec are not viewing this issue through the lens of pride. We are being pragmatic and respectful of all concerned. We have had a plan that involved key concerned parties and we are proceeding.

II certainly do not want to suggest we have not welcomed Philatsea's contribution, however the way he has presented the situation may not be representing the facts completely.

Your board was elected to handle this matter and we will. So far the BCGA have succeeded in having that ban lifted and now we are working on making it province wide.

Wow, that is all I can say.

The BCGA board is being so disingenuous on this I am surprised you even would post this.

The BCGA did not get the ban lifted, try as you might to say this but this is just plain wrong and a lie to the members.

All one has to do is go back and look at the time line ( there would be even more of a time line if one of my posts had not been deleted) of events and what has happened.

Who provided the letter to Jenn at GS on the policy from the Minister of Transport? I did.

Yes there was a call between GS and the reviewers that the President of the BCGA was to be in on but he did not attend on the date and time of it.

So lets look at this how could the BCGA have been successful with this when they didn't; a) provide the letter from the Minister and b) didn't take part in the call on the guidelines for cache placements with regards to the letter.

All I ask is don't try and take credit for things you didn't play a part in.

Phil
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Cuddlefish



Joined: Oct 20, 2008
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Important MOT cache concerns Reply with quote

Thank you to the members who have been in touch with the board regarding this issue. We appreciate your support.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Important MOT cache concerns Reply with quote

OK. This has gone too far.

Sorry but I am going to suggest to the BCGA board to axe all latest threads. This is simply because the loudest voices are indeed manipulating the forums and pumping out propaganda. These bullying tactics filled with misinformation are doing nothing for the geocaching community. Quite the oposite is true. They are harming the geocaching community.

To suggest that our elected representatives in the BCGA are incapable of the task at hand is beyond reproach and it is beyond belief to suggest that the BCGA hand over the reins of said task.

I wish I could say I was shocked but I've seen it all before -- on these very forums. The loudest manipulators always tend to sway public opinion. If you have not talked directly to Groundspeak AND the BCGA in this matter, you don't know what is going on. If all your information came from these forums, I feel sorry for you. You don't know diddly squat. You've been had. Ask me how I know, but not here. I will not feed this blood bath.

Yes, please axe the complete threads please. People are allowed to start another thread on the MOT topic but only if they tell the truth. Axe the lies.

Thank you, rant end.
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Philatsea



Joined: Jun 17, 2008
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Important MOT cache concerns Reply with quote

scruffster:

Are you suggesting that I am providing misinformation? This is a yes or no answer.

This would be the farthest from the truth. I can sit down with you anytime and provide the emails and the time line.

Hmm remember that Nov 11th is coming and it is those very Veterans that fought for us to have the freedom of speech we have today. You are one of many members that belong to the BCGA and I will suggest that there are many more members that want to see the posts than have them removed.

Having a organization that removes posts and stifles free speech only goes to show they have something to hide. If in fact that organization has nothing to hide then they will provide the information they have so the members can make up their minds.

I have provided mine now we know who's turn it is to provide their's.

Phil
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Important MOT cache concerns Reply with quote

Simple answer: YES.

The whole argument started with misinformation.

Assumption #1. Groundspeak is doing nothing, or at best sitting on it. This is a lie. Groundspeak contacted well known geocachers in BC on a fact finding mission very early in the game. They were looking for anyone who may work with the MOT or at least know the hierarchy. I was one of the people they contacted. And I sent them to others. Philatsea was not one on my list.

Even if they didn't start in the first week groundspeak should be given kudos for acknowledging it and working on it. They are an international organization with geocaches world wide. They could have easily said that they will just respect the local laws and put it to rest. Instead they got involved. So they didn't get on it the very next day. Boo hoo.

Assumption #2. The BCGA is doing nothing. This is a lie. I talked to the BCGA personally and they have been actively pursuing the problem.

Assumption #3. And this is what knots my panties. The BCGA is not capable to handle the situation. And the BCGA is holding onto it through "pride" This is a lie. The BCGA executive didn't fall off a turnip truck. They are educated people elected by the membership to perform these very duties for us. We elected them to handle these things.

And that is just the beginning of misinformation in these threads.

Just because the geocaching community was not immediately notified does not mean Groundspeak and the BCGA were not actively working on the problem. Actually, those concerned, such as Lord Ed who had roadside caches, was informed and told that groundspeak was working behind the scenes. Obviously, people seem to have missed that post.

It's unfortunate that people play the forum "free speech" card when their rants are threatened. The BCGA is responsible for all content on their website, and for that, they reserve the right to edit, redact and delete any post deemed unacceptable. They reserve the right to axe posts from people who are spamming (starting numerous threads and causing a nuisance) and they reserve the right to delete posts that bash a person or, in this case, the BCGA itself.

Of course this doesn't sit well with the people who love watching a train wreck. And there are a lot of you out there judging by the increase in website traffic. The posts are far too personal and heated. The content is not positive in any way. And for the mere reason there is spamming and general nastiness towards others on this forum, it is my opinion that it should be deleted without hesitation -- including this post. No good will come out of keeping the threads around but a lot of bad feelings will remain. Sometimes things are done for the common good.

Having said that, the BCGA does not have to do what I ask. It's totally their call and I hope they would feel free to axe my post if they feel it is out of line. In the scheme of things I'm not that important and I'd question the mentality of anyone who thinks their posts are of such importance they should be in a gilded frame.

OK. Rant really end.
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Cuddlefish



Joined: Oct 20, 2008
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Important MOT cache concerns Reply with quote

After rereading and rereading this thread, I must say I am not pleased that it degenerated this point, but I believe deleting it sends an even worse message to the membership than keeping it as is. All I can request is that members step back and cool off before posting, as negative and inflammatory posts serve no good in solving anything. Sure you can let off some steam, and there are people who enjoy watch people argue, but the majority of our members do not enjoy the written negativity.

We will be monitoring future threads on this matter.
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