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Forums —» General Caching —» General —» Attributes are Important
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Attributes are Important
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I'm seeing a lot of new caches listings in my area that have no attributes on the cache page. What is this all about?
Is it not important that seekers know if a cache is friendly or not for their children or their dogs. What about folks who have handicaps...they should be aware if a cache is appropriate for them to seek or not.
Does seeking the cache require stealth?
Gee.......it seems to me that hiders are generating hides & giving no thought/consideration at all to the seekers.
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CAMOKELLY



Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 482
Location: Abbotsford BC

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I agree this is a very important step being missed. I especially value the attributes when planning my Geocaching day as to whether I will have to leave my dog at home for this round of finds or not. I also plan certain times when the kids are in school to get out and find all the caches that are not child friendly. I would like to see the attributes become a mandatory step in the cache creation process rather than an optional one.
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gearhedd



Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I also agree, there might be a reason for a few caches not but they would be weak reasons. They do help narrow to where the cache could be, might be one. Maybe someone who has left the attributes blank could respond.
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

[quote Maybe someone who has left the attributes blank could respond.[/quote]

I have no idea why any one would not provide attributes. It is a courtesy to provide this information for all potential seekers. Indeed it would be informative to hear back from those who don't extend this courtesy & what their reasoning might be. I suspect many hiders have not graduated beyond finding a cache & there is a need for Geocaching 201 programs???
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Bestred



Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Abbotsford, BC

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

SOLONM wrote:

I have no idea why any one would not provide attributes. It is a courtesy to provide this information for all potential seekers. Indeed it would be informative to hear back from those who don't extend this courtesy & what their reasoning might be. I suspect many hiders have not graduated beyond finding a cache & there is a need for Geocaching 201 programs???

My guess for the missing attributes may be that it could be a new cacher and as TESKELLY stated it is a an option not a requirement. Maybe an email to Groundspeak would be something that could get the ball rolling on this concern?

Another guess would be, the cacher just simply forgot. People are people and they make mistakes, and are forgetful Smile

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ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN...not Kelly's, he has his own - ask him.
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Mr. Wilson and a Mt. Goat



Joined: May 01, 2009
Posts: 481
Location: Nanaimo

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I think there should be a "tide dependent" attribute as well.

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Bestred



Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Abbotsford, BC

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

Mr. Wilson and a Mt. Goat wrote:
I think there should be a "tide dependent" attribute as well.

that is a wonderful idea Smile

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ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN...not Kelly's, he has his own - ask him.
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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

'Tide Dependent' is a great idea! You should send that to the folks at Groundspeak. Try sending it to 'contact@geocaching.com! There are miles of tidal shoreline around the world with caches on them so it would seem to be something that could be worth suggesting.

We did two tide-dependent caches today and thankfully the Delorme PN-40 automatically brings up the tide tables for the area that we are in, so we could see that the tide was halfway out and receding. That was our first question when we stepped on the beach and saw where we were headed (800m down the beach)... is it going out or coming in Shocked ? Life Preserver
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agassiz_angel



Joined: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Fraser Valley

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

i am guilty of not putting attributes on a cache. I just noticed it today and it was a total over sight. I have since corrected it but there were none on the cache page.
I personally like to see them and if someone had pointed it out to me I would have changed it sooner Smile
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Mr. Wilson and a Mt. Goat



Joined: May 01, 2009
Posts: 481
Location: Nanaimo

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

sent an email to contact @ geocaching.com, waiting for a response. Maybe we'll see some new artwork on the side of a cache page sometime soon. Very Happy

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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

Great posts & thanks for responding.......I'm a bit confused as to how come as the author of the tread, I did not have any notification regarding input/posts.
Hope this gets every new and old cacher paying attention to attributes & also thereby encouraging others to do the same.
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CAMOKELLY



Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 482
Location: Abbotsford BC

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

SOLONM wrote:
I'm a bit confused as to how come as the author of the tread, I did not have any notification regarding input/posts.

Check your setting you might have that function turned off.

1. Click on "Your Account" at the top of the website page

2. In the middle of the page under your info and above your last 10 posts list is a thin bar that might say you are or are not subscribed to the BCGA newsletter.

3. Click on that sentence to go to a settings page where you will find you can turn on and off many things including notification of replies to the threads you have started.
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

thanks Teskelly, I figured it out....my in box was filled with more important notifications & I simply missed this.
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katcogo



Joined: Feb 21, 2009
Posts: 534
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

Back on topic - the closest attribute you can get is "may require wading" which in some cases is an understatement!
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Bestred



Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Abbotsford, BC

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

katcogo wrote:
Back on topic - the closest attribute you can get is "may require wading" which in some cases is an understatement!

LOL that is funny
but yup, sometimes in BC with all this lovely rain et al. that would be an understatement

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ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN...not Kelly's, he has his own - ask him.
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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

katcogo wrote:
Back on topic - the closest attribute you can get is "may require wading" which in some cases is an understatement!

This is a direct quote from a cache on a small tidal island here on Southern Vancouver Island. Yes, we've found it!

Just how serious are you about geocaching anyway?
Access by wading.

Based on Victoria tides in FEET
-1.0: tie your boots around your neck and roll up your pants.
-0.5: tie your boots around your neck and wear shorts.
+0.0: tie your boots around your neck and wear australian stubbies, a bathing suit or your underwear.
+0.5: as for previous IF your family jewels are at least as far above the ground as plantmans, IF NOT see next (sorry, Captain No Beard but having met you, see next).
+1.0: tie your boots around your neck, the family jewels are going to get cold and wet, only the boots will stay dry.
+1.5: you're a bloody idiot and your boots will get wet too.
+2.0: leave your will with your wife/husband.
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HighMaintenance



Joined: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I have a cache placed near Clinton in Downing Provincial Park. I did check the attributes but there was nothing to click to say there were a billion ants! So all I could do is add it to the title of the cache and explain it in the summary. I also should have added to bring your video camera after you send your friend in..
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

great stories ladies but lets get back on the topic, shall we?? The purpose of the thread was to encourage new and old cachers to think about why the courtesy of including attributes on their cache pages is helpful for potential seekers.
thanks S
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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

SOLONM, we're talking about caches and attributes... Shifty right?

The cache that I quote from could benefit from a TIDAL attribute Life Preserver and Val's cache could certainly benefit from an attribute to warn about swarms of insects. The courtesy to include them is obvious, but sometimes the list of attributes is missing the perfect one for your cache.

Two Cents One of the reason attributes are missing entirely is because some folks are so new at geocaching that they haven't seen enough cache listings and done enough caching to know that they exist or of their intrinsic benefits to cachers and the environment. We strongly suggest at our 101 events that people peruse listings in their free time and find at least 50 caches before considering hiding one so they can see what works, what doesn't and what a good cache listing looks like. Unfortunately that only reaches so many people and so you end up with new cachers hiding caches in places they shouldn't (Parks Canada), in sensitive areas where there could be a mass of spring bulbs on their way (now covered in winter debris) and in containers that leak like the proverbial sieve! Two Cents .

Thanks for asking Smile , that's my theory on a small percentage I'm sure.
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I began this thread to draw attention to why attributes are important for potential seekers. There are some hiders who consistently neglect to offer this courtesy & consistently provide absolutely NO attributes......hopefully new cachers will read this thread & think about this when they design their cache page. It would be brilliant if the more seasoned cachers pay attention to those little details when they compose their respective cache pages.
Frankly, I like to know if there are ticks in the area.I want to know if the terrain involves water or tides or rocky cliffs/scree..is this a safe place to bring my grandchildren......it this place safe at night? Is there a golf course nearby so my husband can entertain himself while I'm caching LOL???
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HighMaintenance



Joined: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

This is an awesome thread S! It would be great if you could have a 101 or 102 event and explain these very important things to new and old cachers alike! I would totally be willing and make myself available to assist you in this endeavour.
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doingitoldschool



Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I'm willing to bet that a nice, polite note to cache hiders who do not post attributes will actually help improve the situation.

Those who are willing to learn will respond well,
and those who aren't, well,
they ain't going to respond to a geocaching class or public complaints either.

Can it be included in classes - sure - but I'm thinking that 101's, 201's and other classes are much like driving lessons - we learn the basics, and then we do our own thing.
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I figure small contributions promoting any kind of constructive awareness is a good thing in life. One bite at a time. One person will never fix everything but if one person can fix small problems in one's surrounding area....wonders can happen.
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HighMaintenance



Joined: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I totally agree with you. I have done a couple of workshops at my school but even at the end of the day, it's the first person contact that makes a difference. I know a lot of cachers that don't frequent these forums...generally its' the same group that attends here..so perhaps another method of communication could be an option?
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doingitoldschool



Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

SOLONM wrote:
I figure small contributions promoting any kind of constructive awareness is a good thing in life. One bite at a time. One person will never fix everything but if one person can fix small problems in one's surrounding area....wonders can happen.

Direct, first person communication fits what you've just spelled out to a 'T'
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doingitoldschool



Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

doingitoldschool wrote:
SOLONM wrote:
I figure small contributions promoting any kind of constructive awareness is a good thing in life. One bite at a time. One person will never fix everything but if one person can fix small problems in one's surrounding area....wonders can happen.

Direct, first person communication fits what you've just spelled out to a 'T'

Oh - that came out a little smug - "je m'excuse" - I tried to edit it, but couldn't.
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Hoodscoop



Joined: Mar 15, 2010
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

As a newbie, I do appreciate that the caches have attributes attached to them. I find myself reading as much info as possible on this site in order to know all I need to know. The do not hide a cache til over 50 completed is a great idea. I also think that pointers like this thread would go well under the How To forum. And no, as a newbie, if I wanted to hide a cache I would not feel insulted if someone sent me a message to let me know that I had forgotten to put in the attributes. The comraderie I have been shown on here has been wonderful, and if someone can point out a mistake or flaw in a cache that I had hidden, then I can only appreciate that someone took the time to point it out to me, so that I can make my cache as enjoyable to look for as possible. To all those that hide a cache, and do it well -- I bow to you. Crown
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IRLPGUY



Joined: Mar 01, 2007
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

There seems to be this mindset that if there are things wrong with a cache placement or cache page that it is because the owner is new to the game.

Take a look around at the most recent caches placed, you will see lots of them with no attributes, poor co-ordinates requiring updating after the FTF has been logged and any number of other cache issues. These my friends are not new cache owners they are what is sometimes referred to as “experienced” cachers.

While putting attributes on a cache page is not “required” it certainly is a benefit to many who need to know how difficult the cache might be and what they might encounter. By not putting attributes on your cache page, you are not being “considerate” of the variety of members of the caching community who might seek your cache.

I logged a cache in a really great series centered around the Agassiz, Harrison Hot Springs area, one of those caches has a huge ant hill very close to the cache. A great photo opportunity, but I sure would not want to step in it unknowingly. Perhaps the CO was not aware of it’s existence when the cache was placed but if he was, then it might have made more sense to place the cache far enough away that no one would stumble upon it while looking for the cache. Make a waypoint to it, point it out for interest sake, but keep the cache far enough away to be safe.

We don’t need attributes for everything we might encounter when placing a cache, what we do need is good judgment in selecting a site that is safe for all who might seek it. If there is any doubt, then seek a different spot.

At one time when you submitted a cache listing the first thing that popped up after the listing was submitted was a message that you have not selected any attributes, do you want to do so now, or something to that effect. I don’t know if that is still the case, but if it is, then there is no reason not to put attributes on your cache page. No excuses please.

New cachers learn more from the caches they find when they start out, than any 101 event will teach them in a 45 minute session. It is up to everyone to set a good example. Good caches and cache pages will be noticed by the newer cachers and that should influence them to follow that example. At least we can hope for that result.
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HighMaintenance



Joined: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I must aplologize up front because I have not admitted to something. In all the caches I have found I have not once looked at the attributes. I have always looked at the difficulty of the cache and the terrain. Since Sarah brought this subject up I have had some engaging email conversations with her and she's had some great and proactive ideas. I have not said that 101 events were just for newbies..I learn things all the time! I'm still not sure that I will ever check the attributes because every cache I have found, the answers have been either in the title, the description or the ratings...colour me bad...I will keep learning and it's definitely something that will help cachers...thanks Ed! I will check out the few caches I have placed and try to make sure the attributes are accurate! But I'm still telling you, there isn't anything to click on when you are swarmed by ants!!!
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SOLONM



Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

HighMaintenance wrote:
I must aplologize up front because I have not admitted to something. In all the caches I have found I have not once looked at the attributes. I have always looked at the difficulty of the cache and the terrain. Since Sarah brought this subject up I have had some engaging email conversations with her and she's had some great and proactive ideas. I have not said that 101 events were just for newbies..I learn things all the time! I'm still not sure that I will ever check the attributes because every cache I have found, the answers have been either in the title, the description or the ratings...colour me bad...I will keep learning and it's definitely something that will help cachers...thanks Ed! I will check out the few caches I have placed and try to make sure the attributes are accurate! But I'm still telling you, there isn't anything to click on when you are swarmed by ants!!!
ha ha.......ants are bad.........but it seems to me that when one makes up a cache page there is a "Question"if you have not included any attributes. It is in your face. I'm not sure if this happens any more but it used to.
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IRLPGUY



Joined: Mar 01, 2007
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I sure hope you did not think I was referring to you in any way Highmaintenance, or for that matter anyone in particular. I don’t even know if I have done any of your caches. My comments were with respect to all the new caches with no attributes being published these days. I do plan on doing all those ones around Clinton this summer so I will be warned in advance of the ANTS.

Of course 101 events are not just for new cachers, however the content in them is more tuned to the newer cacher.

You are absolutely right, lots of people don’t look at the attributes, but there are equally as many that find them informative and should be there to assist those cachers. It is not a big thing to include them. If we are to color you at all, let it be good, I know you endorse everything that makes Geocaching more enjoyable for everyone.

Really there are no “bug” type attributes other than Ticks, it would be nice to have a few added for the Ants and things I suppose..

I guess you could just put “this is an Ants in the Pants” type cache in the description and warn folks to be careful.

Only those that think they know it all, ever stop learning, there is always something new all of us can learn.
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IRLPGUY



Joined: Mar 01, 2007
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

Oooops! I don't know how that got posted twice. See what I am saying about learning. I guess I peeed in the pickles.
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HighMaintenance



Joined: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

Hahaha!!! Hope there weren't thorns in those pickles!!!! But really...I need to check out the caches I have placed because sometimes the attributes change over time as well, and it's a good topic to think about for spring cleaning and checking out the caches I've placed! Now I might even check out the attributes for the caches I go searching for..thanks again Sarah for the topic discussion!
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I just found out that one of my caches is high and dry but across six feet of water due to the spring run off. Hmmmm. Now I'm thinking of adding "May require wading"
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jangor



Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Surrey, BC

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
I just found out that one of my caches is high and dry but across six feet of water due to the spring run off. Hmmmm. Now I'm thinking of adding "May require wading"

Now would that be spring run off and a nice high spring tide? We had to build a little bridge of driftwood when we went to one. It was fun.
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Mr. Wilson and a Mt. Goat



Joined: May 01, 2009
Posts: 481
Location: Nanaimo

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

update,[spacebar-does-not-work]
posted-a-thread-on-the-groundspeak-forums
here

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Mrs_Landsharkz



Joined: Dec 04, 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I just realized that I rarely see attributes. I loaded 3 PQ's onto the Delorme PN-40 before we drove to Whistler, New West and back a couple of days ago. We found a few caches and it wasn't until we attempted to get to one of Scruffster's that required a water crossing, that this attribute discussion even crossed my mind. When doing paperless caching there are no attributes present on the GPS, and so even if they are selected by the hider, we're not seeing them. We tend to do most of our caching away from home and all is done by PQ's that we load before leaving here. When we get back home we plug in the GPS and load them using Cache Register and enter them through the Field Notes option.

I would have to say that I hardly ever read cache listings on the computer for out of town caches unless we're planning to pre-solve a puzzle or something and then I make sure we can get to it. I do read the listing on the GPS (often out loud to Chris while he's driving or taming Tieka) and did especially enjoy Scruffsters trip down Expo 86 memory lane, but if there were any images I'm oblivious Embarassed . I did form a good picture in my mind from his creatively written cache description!

The only time I search using an attribute is when we have gone caching back east in the winter - we do PQ's on Winter Friendly caches.
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gearhedd



Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

The Garmin Oregon also does not load attributes. Garmin I guess does not believe attributes are important to have along with your paperless geocaching experience. But my blackberry does show attributes and I do take a quick look.

However, before going paperless, I would have the attributes along with me. Having kids who don't love caching, like playgrounds and kid friendly caches help and if I'm taking them along a few cache like that goes a long way to extending my caching day.
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geo_canuck77



Joined: Mar 10, 2009
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I see attributes differently, I only use them on my caches when I feel the cacher needs to be aware of difficulties they might run into when getting to my cache. I have a cache at the back of Cultus Lake that is up on the cliff, also you need to walk through water to get to this cache. I have put that appropriate attributes on this. But a nano in the city or a small cache down a trail that has a 1.5 terrain, I don't see the need for an attribute. What is kid friendly? Kids range from 3-15, something friendly for a 10 year old might not be for a 5 year old. If I read this is a 15min hike down the trail to the cache I probably won't take my 4-5 year olds down there, but I would take my 13 year old. For me I go by the size of the container, if it's a micro I won't find it with my kids because it won't have swag for them to trade.

Gearhedd maybe they need a playground close by attribute!
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jangor



Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Surrey, BC

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Attributes are Important Reply with quote

I think the point of attributes is to help other cachers that may want to know a little more information. Just because you, as a cacher, don't look at the attributes doesn't mean they wouldn't be helpful to others. The attributes add additional information to the cache page and are just a common courtesy to others. The content and completeness of a cache page reflects on the cache owner. Once a cache is published, it is not about "you" anymore, it is about those who are going to search for it.

I particularly like this quote from the Groundspeak forums:

"how about for those listings where CO's don't pick any attributes, instead of am empty space have a default one that says "can't be bothered to assign any""
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