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Forums —» Regional —» Lower Mainland / Coast Mountains —» Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2
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Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2


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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Hello geocachers and moonbunnies.

Due to popular demand there is another Tailspin Car Rally scheduled. It will most likely take place in early April. April 4th is the tentative date.

There will be a new route and new puzzles. Last year's race was very close. Only three minutes seperated first and second place.

The rally is in the planning stages and will most likely take on many of the same characteristics of the first. If anyone has any suggestions on how we could make the rally more enjoyable for everyone, please let us know.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Correction. The working date is March 28th.
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Doonchak



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

The GeoRally #1 was wicked fun and the only thing I could think of that might improve the experience would be to find a way to ensure everyone finishes slightly closer together. Perhaps having 4 stages rather then 2, and releasing 2 groups at the same time (So group 1 leaves for stage 1 and group 2 leaves for stage 3, then 5 minutes later or whatever Group 3 leaves for Stage 2 and Group 4 leaves for Stage 4).

Really looking forward to Rally #2....hopefully Derlwyn and I don't get lost in North Van again Crying or Very sad
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goaliegirl38



Joined: Apr 19, 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Pitt Meadows, Burnaby, or driving in between

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

^^ but that was one of the highlights of the rally!!!

And we were actually worried about you guys in North Van! You'd kept up with most of the way and then you got separated... And then it seem like forever before you showed up at the final stage... We thought we were going to have to send Search and Rescue after you Magnify

This year you guys will be pros!
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goaliegirl38



Joined: Apr 19, 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Pitt Meadows, Burnaby, or driving in between

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:53 am    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
Correction. The working date is March 28th.

Drat, no teaming up with my partners in crime on this day for me Crying or Very sad

I not only have to work, but it's playoff weekend for my hockey team. (But please don't wish us luck, if we win it means we go to provincials which is the same weekend as the Great Coal Rush!)
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marmi_and_tas



Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 178
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Ummm ... I have no suggestions yet, but we will sign up right now!

tas
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

How would you suggest we take away the advantage of those people with high-tech routing devices or people that may know the area better than others?

Last year, the fastest team won. It has been suggested that we have a set time between waypoints (based on speed limits and allow for traffic lights etc) and the closest to that set time gets more points. Getting around the route fast wouldn't be an issue. Which do you prefer?
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Doonchak



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

I personally don't have any issue with the fastest team winning, I see it as a speed race anyways.

The only real issue would be the issue of people being willing to drive at very high speeds..which I beleive was an issue last time ;P Do all GPS units contain a speed tracker? If so, displaying the speed tracker could be a requirement for completion, and there would be heavy heavy penalties for being more then a few kms over the speed limits.

Or...

Something along the lines of what you mention below would be just having a base time requirement. IE - The route, being driven in the most efficient manner, but legal manner, should take no less then 3 hours or something. Not factoring in any time being spent looking for caches. Don't let us know what that time is...and if any team is below that time they are disqualified or knocked back 5 places or something because they obviously used some devious tactics to win.

Overall though, I think everyone had a ton of fun, regardless of who won in the end.
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vnm747



Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: BC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads up, now gotta find somebody to cover my shift.
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Derlwyn



Joined: Feb 28, 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Lower Mainland - Tri-City Area

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

I am stoked for this second Georally. And yes, no splitting up this time Smack ...unless my partner remembers his phone. Razz

I thought it was extremely well organized the first time around. I don't know if you can really control how people drive all that much. If you put a limit on excessive speeding, how much is excessive? 10km, 20km...50km ? I can honestly say I did about 10-15km over on the highways and freeways, but on those pretty quiet roads around Seymour I think I went even faster than the posted limits. Granted we had lost a lot of time by then and I think I was motivated to try and get back in the game.

The issue I see with saying that it should take 3hrs of responsible driving, is that some people may know shortcuts and backroads, and alternative routes that are naturally shorter. So they may be punished for just being clever instead of reckless.

The high tech routing was a little discouraging. My knowledge of roads certainly can't compete with the plethora of maps and mathematically generated fastest routes. I don't think you can punish people for getting to places faster though, that is part of the game.

I like the idea of the addition of a 3rd or even 4th route. So more people are sent on more paths. It can really help hide who is 1st, 2nd, etc. as people bump into each other. This could also help to solve the problem of heavier traffic later in the day. Some people mentioned that there was no way to keep pace when there is more traffic later. More routes can get more people onto the course earlier...though that does mean more work for Scruff....sorry man. Smile

Whatever changes are made, Doonchak and Derlwyn will be out in force for the 2nd rally!
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

I was toying with the idea of sending everyone off at the same time with all the coords for all caches, but that would make it more like a cache machine.

We could set up a cloverleaf pattern of a few short routes and give a few close coords for seperate shorter routes. It would be up to the drivers / navigators to decide where they would like to start but everyone would have equal oppurtunity since they would all have the same choice.

Last year we really did our best to plan the two start / finish points so there was no obvious advantage. Judging by the cars that came in, even numbers with route 1 and odd numbers with route 2, there was definitely an even mix down the line.

The problem with a rally is bunching up. I don't think we can ever eliminate teams meeting on the trails or at a cache. But I would like to see as few bottlenecks as possible. For that reason, I can't see everyone doing the exact route as suggested. There was a ten minute time lapse between cars (leaving every five minutes on alternate routes) and yet we still had some of bunching up.

I can't see 20 cars doing the exact same route (starting point) with only a five minute space between.

There is another option. We can start at sun up. Those that want to get out at 7AM can do so. But they'd be desperately early for the luncheon.

One thing is for sure. We will have an emergency envelope for the final location for those that do not finish the rally. If the rally isn't completed at a certain time we'll just call everyone in. Anyone that doesn't find the caches in five or six hours has no hope of winning anyway.

Thanks for showing interest. A lot of people really seemed to enjoy the rally six months ago and this rally will go on rain or shine. Time is short, however. If I can't get the rally planned out this week we will have to postpone it a month.
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Derlwyn



Joined: Feb 28, 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Lower Mainland - Tri-City Area

PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

I would really like to offer a hand in helping you with creating or placing caches, but I really want to be involved in the rally! Smile
Perhaps after Doonchak and I totally dominate in this next one Trophy I'd be happy to lend a hand for a possible 3rd event.

The idea of giving individuals the entire list and giving people a deadline to finish by (ex. 4hrs) could work. Points could awarded for number of caches completed and finishing within the allotted time. Points would be deducted for finishing past the deadline. You could offer more points for caches that are intentionally harder than others, or further away as temptation. I agree, 20 cars would most certainly not take the same route.

Would having two different starting locations be feasible? People will inevitably bump into each other, but this could alleviate some of the bunching up.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Thanks for the offer to help, Derlwyn. Hopefully we have all the volunteers needed for this year. A few people offered to help but I turned them down since they were also the ones most interested in participating.

If anyone wants to help after the fact, it would be nice if someone would go around and pick up all the caches the day after. It almost killed me last year. **snarfle** Ms. Turbos is such a dominatrix. She didn't know that I placed the caches over several days prior to avoid having a heart attack. Yet she drove me to all the places and made me hike/walk/run/crawl to pick up all the caches.

Don't anyone volunteer yet. We'll see how it goes and perhaps a few people who live in the secret area (rally route yet to be revieled) can do it.

For your efforts I will give you one of my special cammo caches. That reminds me. Worldcaching is wonderful with donating lots of cache containers to use in the rally. Time to give Worldcaching a call. **teehee**

I'm expecting more from Doonchak and Derlwyn this year. I can't believe they came in after a bunch of 40 something computer hacks. Even the cigarette smoking team were four spots ahead. At least Doonchak and Derlwyn managed to crawl to the finish line before the old ladies (but if the ladies didn't take time out to pick up a bunch of nearby caches along the route I suspect that would have been a close race too). Yes, I expect Doonchak and Derlwyn to redeem themselves this time around.

It's time everyone gets on the treadmill. I'm planning a few short but uphill hikes. It's later than you think.
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The Wet Coast Explorers



Joined: Dec 23, 2003
Posts: 198
Location: Coquitlam

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

scruffster wrote:
I was toying with the idea of sending everyone off at the same time with all the coords for all caches, but that would make it more like a cache machine.

We could set up a cloverleaf pattern of a few short routes and give a few close coords for seperate shorter routes. It would be up to the drivers / navigators to decide where they would like to start but everyone would have equal oppurtunity since they would all have the same choice.

I was discussing something similar with wecksing today. We were talking about a wagon wheel layout where the start/end was at the hub of the wheel and the caches were placed approximately equal distance from the hub in a circle. The participants would be given the coords of the caches at the start and have to (quickly) determine what cache and in what direction they were going to go in. This makes the starting cache random and people aren't chasing one another. You could still stagger the start times if you wanted. Just a thought. Looking forward to another great rally, although hopefully less penalties this time!
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

The Event has been submitted to Groundspeak for approval.

There will be a few changes this time around:

1) Everyone will do the exact same route. We have a task at the beginning and after the first team is finished the second team will begin and so on. There may be a lot of bunching up at the beginning but we will be trying to avoid everyone looking for the cache at the same time by making the walking distance longer, making the caches a bit easier and any puzzles in the caches will be grab and go. People will not have to stay at the caches in order to do most of the puzzles. They will be able to pick up envelopes and do the caches along the trail or in their vehicles.

2) The route will be much tighter which will take the emphasis off automobile speed. Speed will be more dependent on how fast the team can solve puzzles, perform tasks and physically run to the caches.
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Tulameen_Turtles



Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

You are evil - or is it the fault of Snuffy and Scruffy - both your conscious.. lol

you know Angel on one shoulder Devil on the other..

I overheard a few of your conversations Sat Night with Mrs. Turbos's

and I've done some of your caches and know how you think.. Do you really expect people back by midnight.. hmm

Now who to team up with for a shot.. I'll be looking a specific skill set & bring bribary!

But alas this time we will not take a single thing out of the cache -- but wait you said we were supposed to take envelopes - guess that's my first puzzle to figure out - how to read the instructions properly.. lol
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

We are going to have to do a lot of planning to match Fearcaching which was perhaps the best planned event to date. Pearlwind and Ms. Turtle did an amazing job with that. I kinda wish I was there. **hic**

What's this talk of angels and demons. I'm all angel. **polishing halo**

The last rally was easy. Yep yep yep yep yep. Now we have to get everyone out of their cars and sweat a bit.
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

We have 13 teams so far. That was fast The rally is over half full in the four days since it has been published. Although it looks like many of the teams are small many have more people who have yet to sign up.

So, if you'd like to participate I suggest you sign up quick. There are only seven spaces left.

1 ) Olipe & the Duvids
2 ) BestRed / TESKELLY
3 ) Boomerang Papa / High Maintenance / Puddleduck21, code3man
4 ) MStheBrain & Pinky / Huggy Family
5 ) Derlwyn / Doonchak
6 ) Tulameen Turtles
7 ) Marmi & Taz
8 ) Hollyburn
9 ) 911turbos / CanadianBacon / Geodug / Mr. Beanz / CatapultJeff
10) Seek & Go Hide / Ms. Beanz / IronMaiden
11) The Wild Thingies
12) Aerodoq
13) Rokman4
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

The Rally is now Full. Wow, it didn't take long to get all the vehicle spots filled up.

Now is the time to plot your strategy. It's time to map out the area and see if you can out guess the rally organizers. Just where would they hide those waypoints. Well, you'll find out a week from today.

The long range weather forcast is calling for rain all week -- including the day of the rally. Rivers and streams will be high. Trails will be muddy. Expect to get a bit dirty and please dress accordingly. It may be an idea to bring along an extra pair of shoes, socks and pants.

Good luck. We promise this will be a fun rally for everyone involved.
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Doonchak



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

The long range forcast has actually significantly improved as of today it looks like. They are calling for sun with clouds for the day of the rally now.

Lets all hope Beanie
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Last years top ten:

1) Mr. Gigabyte, Wet Coast Explorers & the wecksings --- 3h 55mins
2) Mr. 911turbos, CanadianBacon, Geodug, Catapult Jeff, & Mr. Wild Wiggly Beanz --- 3h 57mins
3) Ms. Wild Wiggly Beanz, Northern Gecko Seek & Go Hide & goaliegirl38 --- 4h 08mins
4) M.S. theBrain, Pinky, Clever Calliope & the Huggy Family -- 4h 32mins
5) Aerodoq -Team LeftCoastFloyds & Tomer & Carla --- 5h 12mins
6) Marmi, Tas, MsChief Gps_y, Pearlwind & rhodieguy --- 5h 14mins
7) Puddle Duck 21, High Maintenance, Code3Man & ilovevacation -- 5h 17mins
8 ) Kambo117b, Peyote, Cristo9FP -- 5h 21mins
9) Hollyburn, Quigley Jones, Pollywoggg, & Tulameen Turtles --- 5h 31mins
10) Doonchak & Derlywn --- 5h 35mins

So, the Tailspin II lottery has begun. No real gambling but who do you think will win this year? Many teams are either identical or at least similar. Notice that the top teams really didn't have a major time spread. It's really anyone's game.

Hmmm.
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Tulameen_Turtles



Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Scruff and Ms. Turbos outdid yourself this time - we are so tired and sore I'm ready for a nap - the kids loved it - and Mrs turtle got to color - even though she can't turn the 5 into the proper 6.

Quinn smiled through the most of it - and yes a few wrong turns were made - but kudo's to our team mates who helped us get as far as we did!

We look forward to the next one - the memories are price less - can't wait to hear all the stories - I still laugh at the vision of Graf paddling in the one man boat out so we could get started.

Thank you to Beauty & the Beast for taking all the video and photos - should be interesting when they get it together - and for navigating (We want one of those toys!!!) will log it it a bit..

but you both did an amazing job!!!!!
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Teddy2k



Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 358
Location: Rosedale, BC

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

A BIG thanks to Scruffster and Ms. Turbos for all the hard work that you put into this event!

Whether it was rain, snow, a dinghy full of water, wading across a creek just to find a cache or the sprint into Coquitlam Mall to get the bonus points at the photo booth, it was truly an excellent event and one for the history books! It was also great to meet all the local cachers and to finally put a face to all the names I keep seeing on the website!

I look forward to seeing any and all pictures and videos that I'm sure will be shared soon.

Until next time.....
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for braving the wind, cold, rain and snow to participate in this year's rally. It was a very wet day. If it's any consolation, I was just as wet as the rest of you.

Also, thanks for the kind words and suggestions. It's only with suggestions from the people who participate that the rally can improve in the future.

I have to admit that I'm surprised at the number of infractions recorded on camera. Believe it or not, I was only expecting five or ten photos maximum but it seems that in the rush to win, there were more than a few geocachers not terribly interested in abiding by the rules of the road 100% of the time. Parking infractions cost some teams a medal.

It was mentioned elsewhere that people should be instantly disqualified for infractions. I am not sure if that would be the best idea since some people, noticing they're caught, might decide not to finish the rally. We'd only have a handful of cars crossing the finish line.

Also, it seemed to be the teams bunched in the middle that took the most photos. The teams that lagged behind and started early seemed not to get caught (or were upstanding citizens who parked legally). But they didn't get any infraction photos either. The early teams who were really fighting their way to the finish line without penalty had less of a chance of winning with all the snapshots taken. So there was an unfair advantage to the teams in the middle who were camera happy.

There was also a concern that there was no appeal and it appears that the Tulameen Tank is too wide to fit between the lines in one parking space so that gave the Turtle team an unfair disability.

If the paper still exists it would be interesting to see who would have won under a disqualification rule. My guess (just through memory) would have put Aerodoq and Olipe very high on the list. There may be a few more teams without an infraction.

The infraction rules were really in place for safety and legal reasons. There has to be a way to keep the rally safe yet fun and challenging -- even if it means allerting the police to the route and letting them deal with speeders and parking infractions. Hmmmmm, maybe the next rally should be based on the most common speed traps in the city. OK, that might be too evil. And after all, I have to drive it. **snarfle**

It was also suggested that the race be timed based on speed limits, stop signs etc. I'm not convinced that would work since I believe many teams would speed to the area to give themselves more time to find the cache.

I'm also surprised that many people did not see the bonus cache clues. Perhaps the weather was a factor as people were really hunched over in the rain looking down. Perhaps more than one clue is needed.

All in all, I think the problems were minor in comparrison to the fun everyone seemed to have. By the time I was at waypoint #8, it looked like people were still in high spirits despite being somewhat waterlogged. After all, the rally is about having fun and being out in a social environment with other geocachers. From the sound of everyone at the after party, there were many adventures, many triumphs and a few pitfalls.

It's good to see everyone managed to finish the challenge this year around. Next time, we just might hold a rain dance for the rally. It seemed to add to the challenge.

Please feel free to add any suggestions, comments to this thread. We need suggestions, critisizm from the participants to make it better.
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Aerodoq



Joined: Apr 01, 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Thanks again to Scruffster and 911Turbos for another excellent event.

If you didn't have a chance to be there, I've put a summary of the whole thing from our perspective on my blog:

www.leftcoastfloyds.ne...-rally-ii/

A>

_________________

Cache stats and map
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Thanks for posting a great play by play on the rally, Aerodoq. It was a fun read.
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adroit_seeker



Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Perhaps it would be a good idea to have a medal / award for the team with the least (or zero) infractions in a rally.
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Tulameen_Turtles



Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 347

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Dear Scruff & the Moonbunnies

It saddens me deeply that a full 2 weeks has passed since the insatiable drive of needing to splash in the sleet and snow and vi for finding secret locations, tonight through deep reminscents I found my way back through video's and found some incriminating evidence of Scruff's true motives..

See the attached video:

Scruff & Mrs. Turbo's evidence

The evidence speaks for itself - Jeff as part of the Jury - any suggested punishments for him and Mrs. Turbos?? I'm thinking of a few appropriate items - such as a shoe tree sacrifice!!
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:06 am    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

What a nice testamonial. I watched it several times.

I must protest the over used photo of me in a towel, however. Too much paparazzi.
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Catapult Jeff



Joined: Aug 24, 2005
Posts: 169
Location: Surrey BC

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

Ms Turbo, Ms Turtle and Scruffy Skunk. Sounds like a plot of a movie (or a cache series)

I'm not getting into this one. Remember I like the skunk just the way he is. But the shoe tree........... hmmm...... I have an idea. That will have to wait until next month.

_________________
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scruffster



Joined: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 1207
Location: Burnaby

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Tailspin Geo Rally -- Take 2 Reply with quote

**giggle** @ "I like the skunk just the way he is." Jeff has skunk body parts scattered all over Surrey.

No good can come out of plotting against the skunk. It will only lead to your ultimate doom. I feel so sorry for anyone that attempts a practical joke on the skunk. My memory is long. And the need for redemption is stronger. The rally is just a taste of what I can make you do, my puppets. **snarfle**

I'm looking forward to the next rally in Tulameen/Coalmont. It's a wonderful area and I have no doubt the caches will be amazing. Now who is going to keep me away from the Vodka??? The events in BC are getting better and better. It is getting to the point where it will be impossible to outdo anyone.
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